Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2006 August 21

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German pronunciation of "r"

Why in some listenings I can hear the German speaker pronouncing the r like in French and in others like in Spanish? Is it some kind of regional variation? Are they both acceptable in the whole German territory? Thanks.

Both variations are acceptable. A Spanish r is the best decision in standart language. A French r is mainly found in dialects (e.g. Bavarian). In songs French rs are used to create an enjoyable sound (F-r-eude schöner Götterfunken).

Actually, it's the other way around. The uvular ("French") R is standard in most of Germany, and the best choice for learners. The alveolar ("Spanish" or "Italian") R is heard only in southern accents (Bavaria, Austria) and in sung classical music. User:Angr 09:37, 21 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

This German wikipedia link confirms what User:Angr stated above. It also claims that the alveolar (Spanish) 'r' was still predominant in Germany a hundred years ago. Since then German speakers (with the exceptions of the mentioned parts of Austria and Bavaria) have increasingly switched to the uvular (French) 'r'. According to said link, the French analogy seems to be correct historically too. Apparently, the social elite picked up the uvular 'r' during the 17/18th century, when French was still the "lingua franca" among Europe's aristocrats. ---Sluzzelin 13:15, 21 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Shortened name forms

Is there a term for the shortening of a person's name by using the first initial plus the first syllable of the last name? For example, J-Lo or A-Rod? Is this strictly an American phenomenon? (Lately around our office, people are referring to each other by these forms.) — M-Rud, er, Michael J 10:53, 21 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I'm gonna say no. The only thing I can think of is Portmanteau (That is, clipping and blending). I don't think there's a specific term for doing it in that way for names. But you can certainly coin one.AEuSoes1 03:14, 23 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Devanagari ( Sanskrit )

How do you write ( Ida ) Ida (nadi) in Devanagari ? 212.138.113.25 14:20, 21 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

It's hard to know without looking it up. All three of the letters in the Roman transliteration could have two values in Devanagari if the diacritics of the IAST have been left off. Does "Ida" mean ida, īda, iḍa, īḍa, idā, īdā, iḍā, or īḍā? User:Angr 14:26, 21 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Checking it up on the various tables at Devanāgarī is advisable, especially if we don't know what the diacritics are (if any). -- THE GREAT GAVINI {T|C|#} 15:34, 21 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

So what should I do ? Can any one tell us which one it is ? 212.138.113.24 22:27, 21 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The Monier-Williams Sanskrit-English Dictionary list many words meaning "comfort", including iḻā and irā, but no version of "ida". However, the lemma for iḻā warns us not to confound it with iḍā, the instrumental case of iḍ, whose lemma states "connected with írā, q.v". This in turn states: "closely allied to iḍā and i". The basic meaning given is: "any drinkable fluid". I can see how that can be a comfort (like Southern Comfort). So, although I wouldn't know why we would have an instrumentalis here, iḍā appears to have the best papers. Using this as a search term I find it on this Sanskrit Heritage Dictionary as meaning "refreshment", "comfort", "libation", with rendering इडा. --Lambiam ^Talk 00:35, 22 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

So does that mean that ida = इडा ? Or does it nead a little more searching ? I would just li to remind those who can help that this is the " ida " I mean : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ida_%28nadi%29 212.138.47.22 16:20, 22 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

It means the claim at Ida (yoga) that the word ida means "comfort" in Sanskrit can't be confirmed. User:Angr 16:31, 22 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

On re-reading Monier-Williams, it appears that I was misled by the confusing presentation. It seems that one lemma runs on into the next: "≫ iḍā / íḍā f. or (in Ṛig-veda) / ⋙ iḻā ...". So both dictionaries above agree that "comfort" is one of several meanings of íḍā. The rendering íḍā = इडा given by the Sanskrit Heritage Dictionary is consistent, as far as I can see, with our article Devanāgarī. --Lambiam ^Talk 17:54, 22 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Yes; iḍā is इडा. User:Angr 19:56, 22 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you , but if you may , how is it pronounced ? 212.138.113.24 01:04, 23 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Roughly "id-ah", but for the "d" the tip of your tongue should touch the roof of your mouth (the top of your hard palate), not your alveolar ridge as it does in English. User:Angr 05:05, 23 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]