Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2023 May 26

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May 26

Halide Edib Adıvar and Gandhism

I was reviewing DYK for Zakir Husain where in Turkish activist Halide Edib Adıvar is seen speaking about Gandhism. Where as there seems to be some questions over her role vis a vis Armenians.

My questions are

• 1) What is time line of her exposure to Gandhism?
• 2) How far she was influenced by Gandhism specially principle of non-violence?
• 3) Did she review or change any of her positions in light of her improved understanding of Gandhism?
• 4) Did she critiqued any one / thing through lenses of Gandhism?
• 5) How far her visits to India influenced Indian political leadership (Congress and non-Congress) with her political thoughts? Bookku (talk) 04:55, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

Googling "Halide Edib Adıvar gandhi" turns up oodles of sources. You're likely to find a lot of work here you could use to expand her article easily. See [1]. --Jayron32 11:41, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

Oh that's interesting. thanks. Bookku (talk) 12:17, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

Spanish exploration of the Pacific

https://nla.gov.au/nla.obj-232362076/view

This map, produced in 1830, seeks to depict the world as it was known in 1660; unexplored areas are covered with black clouds. I'm surprised to see the Pacific Ocean so marked, since Magellan had crossed it a century earlier, but who knows, that's an isolated voyage that might be forgotten about. But my biggest question -- in the 17th century, how did Spanish expeditions to the Philippines typically travel? Given Portuguese dominance of the Indian Ocean (plus the uselessness of the region to the Spanish, thanks to Tordesillas), I figured they would routinely cross the Pacific and rely on either the Straits of Magellan or an overland crossing in Central America, but if Spanish expeditions to the Philippines had been crossing the Pacific routinely for a century (per History of the Philippines (1565-1898), the Spanish presence began in 1565), I don't understand the mapmakers' decision here. Nyttend (talk) 21:42, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

Via Mexico. "On November 19 or 20, 1564, a Spanish expedition of a mere 500 men led by Miguel López de Legazpi departed Barra de Navidad (modern Mexican state of Jalisco) in the Viceroyalty of New Spain, arriving off Cebu on February 13, 1565, conquering it despite Cebuano opposition." History of the Philippines. DOR (ex-HK) (talk) 22:30, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

Nyttend -- We have an article Manila galleon on the ships that for many years carried Mexican silver to the Philippines, and brought spices and Chinese luxuries back. However, until the mid eighteenth century, there were a number of Pacific islands undiscovered by Europeans, and blank areas on the map where there could have been land... AnonMoos (talk) 04:38, 27 May 2023 (UTC)

What the Spanish galleons traveling between Manila in the Phillipines and Acapulco in Mexico did not discover is really quite remarkable. Their transpacific voyages began in 1565, and for well over 200 years, their ships sailed every year eastbound to Mexico passing north of Hawaii, and westbound to the Phillipines passing south of Hawaii. It was not until 1778 that James Cook stumbled on Hawaii and got killed there. That is a span of time equivalent to the period from the Napoleonic Wars until today, and the Spanish never discovered Hawaii, stretched out prominently and proud in the middle of the Pacific. Really quite strange. Cullen328 (talk) 07:34, 28 May 2023 (UTC)

Part of it can be explained. To sail eastbound, they had to catch the westerlies, putting them at least 1000 km north of the main Hawaiian islands. When sailing westbound, the longitude problem made it most attractive to do so at the latitude of the Philippines, putting them 600 km south of Hawaii. The highest peak there, Mauna Kea, can at best be seen from about 250 km away; the small islands in the north-west of the chain only from a few tens of kilometres. The remarkable thing is that they didn't systematically explore the part of the Pacific that they routinely crossed anyway. Maybe because they had a known, safe route and any deviation from it would increase the chance of shipwreck. PiusImpavidus (talk) 09:21, 28 May 2023 (UTC)

See Álvaro de Mendaña de Neira for Spanish non-Philippines exploring efforts. AnonMoos (talk) 12:06, 28 May 2023 (UTC)

On the mapmakers' decision here, this is a plate from Edward Quinn's Atlas in a Series of Maps of the World as Known at Different Periods, with an Historical Narrative (in case you didn't see) which also contains Quinn's narrative, mostly concerned with European affairs and little exploration. You can see the Philippines listed in the initial description of the "Eighteenth Period" (1558-1660), but the narrative discussion for Spain is very brief and doesn't really list discoveries. The preface might have some hints as to his intent and level of detail in the maps.

The Sandwich Islands are on the map however as "Isles de la Mesa", i think this is a misunderstanding of some sighting or rumor from Mendaña's first voyage AnonMoos linked to. Juan Gaetano[2] Manila galleon#Possible contact with Hawaii fiveby(zero) 14:07, 28 May 2023 (UTC)

After the death of Magellan, his expedition split. Juan Sebastián Elcano took the Victoria (ship) through the Portuguese half of the world painfully avoiding the Portuguese and circumnavigating the world for the first time. Trinidad (ship) leaked so she could not join Victoria. They tried to sail back to the Americas but couldn't find the Westerlies and ended surrendering to the Portuguese. It would take Andrés de Urdaneta to find the tornaviaje to commercially exploit the Manila Galleon.

Spanish immigration to Hawaii says:

Hawaiian historians, such as Reginald Yzendoorn and Richard W. Rogers, defended the possibility of the first European discovery of the Hawaiian Islands by Spain, especially by the Spanish sailor Juan Gaetano, since several 16th-century documents and maps detailed islands in the same geographical position that received the name: "La Mesa" in the case of Hawaii, "La Desgraciada" to refer to Maui, "Ulloa" to Kahoʻolawe, and "Los Monges" to Lanai and Molokai. In addition, other logbooks, such as those of the corvettes Descubierta and Atrevida, make these islands coincide at the same point in the Pacific Ocean. Likewise, geographers who had access to privileged information about the Spanish expeditions, such as Abraham Ortelius, did not fail to locate islands called “Los Bolcanes” and “La Farfana” at those same coordinates.

--Error (talk) 09:18, 30 May 2023 (UTC)