Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2022 September 17
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September 17
[edit]Nudism in Montpellier
[edit]French artist Frédéric Bazille documented that the fishermen of Montpellier worked in the nude during the mid-19th century, and this greatly upset some people. What’s the history behind this? Viriditas (talk) 09:07, 17 September 2022 (UTC)
- I cannot find evidence that the Montpellier fishermen worked in the nude in real life, rather than on canvas – specifically that of Le Pécheur à l'épervier. Bazille submitted two works to the Salon in each of the years from 1866 to 1870, when he died. For the 1869 Salon he submitted Le Pécheur à l'épervier and La Vue de village. In most years only one work of his was accepted for the exhibition, and 1869 was no exception. La Vue de village was accepted, Le Pécheur à l'épervier was rejected. Bazille was disappointed, because he considered the latter painting the better of the two. One may surmise that the reason behind the rejection was that prudism trumped nudism (the exhibition in 1884 of a painting by Sargent portraying a socialite showing some cleavage had created a scandal), but I found no specific indication that in this case other than artistic considerations were in play. --Lambiam 08:47, 18 September 2022 (UTC)
- Cézanne's Bathers: Biography and the Erotics of Paint (p. 92) describes the challeges faced by Bazille in painting male nudes at that time. Apparently, classical and religious nude men were fine, it was the modern setting which was the problem. Alansplodge (talk) 11:05, 18 September 2022 (UTC)
- Forgive me for any confusion. Lambiam and Alansplodge, I accept both of your answers. However, my original question was getting more at the historical practice of nudism in Montpellier, and has little to do with the artist or the painting. Both the Russian and Italian Wikipedia articles on Fisherman with a net (1868) mention that the people of Montpellier "practiced nudism widely despite the strong attempts of the local authorities to limit and prohibit the practice". That's the kind of history I was wondering about, more in the context of people's history of labor practices and how they fit into local society. The reason I found this interesting in the first place, was because I remember reading many years ago that this was a common practice, not just for fishermen in Montpellier (who were likely trying to protect their clothes from getting wet or smelling fishy), but IIRC, nudism was common in many other working situations, such as industrial labor, where clothes could get caught in machinery and kill the workers. There's also a famous scene in the Chernobyl miniseries where workers had to remove their clothes to clear debris (fictional, of course, but this is what I'm getting at). I also seem to recall that coal workers worked nude due to the heat. Viriditas (talk) 22:00, 18 September 2022 (UTC)
- Your recall is correct: see History of nudity#Early modern, last paragraph. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 90.193.131.160 (talk) 09:23, 19 September 2022 (UTC)
- Forgive me for any confusion. Lambiam and Alansplodge, I accept both of your answers. However, my original question was getting more at the historical practice of nudism in Montpellier, and has little to do with the artist or the painting. Both the Russian and Italian Wikipedia articles on Fisherman with a net (1868) mention that the people of Montpellier "practiced nudism widely despite the strong attempts of the local authorities to limit and prohibit the practice". That's the kind of history I was wondering about, more in the context of people's history of labor practices and how they fit into local society. The reason I found this interesting in the first place, was because I remember reading many years ago that this was a common practice, not just for fishermen in Montpellier (who were likely trying to protect their clothes from getting wet or smelling fishy), but IIRC, nudism was common in many other working situations, such as industrial labor, where clothes could get caught in machinery and kill the workers. There's also a famous scene in the Chernobyl miniseries where workers had to remove their clothes to clear debris (fictional, of course, but this is what I'm getting at). I also seem to recall that coal workers worked nude due to the heat. Viriditas (talk) 22:00, 18 September 2022 (UTC)
- It may be true that Montpellier fishermen used to worked in the nude, but, as I wrote, I could not find evidence corroborating the claim. The Russian article predates the Italian; the respective paragraphs are almost identical in content. If the Italian did not copy the Russian, they must have had a common source, but neither cites a source. BTW, the claim in it:Pescatore con rete that the painting was rejected due to its eccessivo realismo leading to oscenità fails verification; the cited source merely states that it was rejected by the jury "
precisely because it was so shockingly modern and veristic
".[1] --Lambiam 13:16, 19 September 2022 (UTC)- Thank you. Which is one of the reasons I’m asking the question. There’s not enough information available about it. Viriditas (talk) 23:52, 19 September 2022 (UTC)
- It may be true that Montpellier fishermen used to worked in the nude, but, as I wrote, I could not find evidence corroborating the claim. The Russian article predates the Italian; the respective paragraphs are almost identical in content. If the Italian did not copy the Russian, they must have had a common source, but neither cites a source. BTW, the claim in it:Pescatore con rete that the painting was rejected due to its eccessivo realismo leading to oscenità fails verification; the cited source merely states that it was rejected by the jury "