Humanities desk
< October 17	<< Sep \| October \| Nov >>	October 19 >

Welcome to the Wikipedia Humanities Reference Desk Archives
The page you are currently viewing is a transcluded archive page. While you can leave answers for any questions shown below, please ask new questions on one of the current reference desk pages.

October 18

Other cases of insignificant royalty and/or insignificant nobility acquiring a royal throne?

What I find interesting is that--as per the map on the right--in 1477, the House of Bourbon-Vendôme (descended in the male line from James I, Count of La Marche) controlled only a small amount of French territory (centered around the French city of Vendôme), with even a more senior branch of the House of Bourbon (descended in the male line from the Count of La Marche's elder brother, Peter I, Duke of Bourbon) controlling much more territories (including the Dukes of Bourbon castle at Montluçon in the Bourbonnais). However, just 112 years later, in 1589, Henry IV of France became the first French King from the House of Bourbon-Vendôme--indicating quite a massive shift in the fortunes of this royal cadet branch in just slightly over a century. (This occurred as a result of all of the more senior Capetian branches dying out by 1589, leaving the House of Bourbon-Vendôme as the senior-most Capetian branch.)

(For reference, the senior branch of the House of Bourbon, the Dukes of Bourbon, died out in 1527 with the death of Charles III, Duke of Bourbon at the Sack of Rome. However, the Bourbon-Vendome branch did not inherit Charles III's vast lands after his death due to them being confiscated by the French crown due to Charles's treason.)

Anyway, which additional cases have there been of insignificant royalty and/or insignificant nobility acquiring a royal throne? Futurist110 (talk) 22:44, 18 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Catherine the Great of Russia (a) had zero Russian blood, being a minor German/Prussian princess, and (b) had zero claim to any country's throne. She merely married into the Russian royal family, then wangled her way onto the throne herself by forcing her husband Peter III to abdicate and name her as his successor. Hardly a regular procedure. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 22:53, 18 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Good example! Futurist110 (talk) 01:39, 19 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Two very obvious ones - Carl XIV Johan, neither royal nor Swedish, and Napoleon, a member of an obscure Italian noble family from Corsica. DuncanHill (talk) 23:23, 18 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Good examples! Futurist110 (talk) 01:39, 19 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

And of course William the Bastard. DuncanHill (talk) 23:47, 18 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Another good example! Futurist110 (talk) 01:39, 19 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Charles XIV John was one of Napoleon's marshals before being chosen as king of Sweden. -- Calidum 01:54, 19 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, and he was mentioned by User:DuncanHill earlier here. Futurist110 (talk) 02:37, 19 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Damn, the Johan threw me off. -- Calidum 02:49, 19 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, Johan is John in another language. Swedish, perhaps? I know that Johannes is John in German. Futurist110 (talk) 19:01, 19 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Speaking of Napoleon's generals, Joachim Murat also received a throne, that of King of Naples. So he fits too. Xuxl (talk) 17:01, 19 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

House of Orange-Nassau, the Principality of Orange was 280 km². Fgf10 (talk) 07:31, 19 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Both the Stuarts and the Carolingians originally came from "supporting" roles (Steward and Mayordomo). --Stephan Schulz (talk) 07:34, 19 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I'll always wonder whether Tolkien made a joke when little Boromir asked his daddy, "How many years does it take to make a Steward a King?" Denethor replied, "In lesser kingdoms, perhaps only a few centuries." (Paraphrased from memory.) —Tamfang (talk) 03:50, 23 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Georg Ludwig, Elector of Hanover, became George I of Great Britain in 1714, a substantial promotion. Alansplodge (talk) 07:36, 19 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

An Elector of the Holy Roman Empire is hardly obscure, though. —Tamfang (talk) 03:38, 23 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Henry Tudor, a minor Welsh noble with little significant landholdings to speak of, became King Henry VII of England because his army Killed the last guy to hold it. Similarly, Henry Bollingbroke, Duke of Lancaster deposed (and later had killed) his predecessor to become king. Now, at least in Henry's case, he was probably one of the largest landowners in England at the time, but "Largest landowner in England" is still less than "all of England." --Jayron 32 12:28, 19 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Bolingbroke was second or third in the succession before his coup. Tudor was – well – not the last living descendant of Edward III, but there were not many

Serbia, that great exporter of history to the rest of Europe whether we want it or not, gives us both the Karageorgevich dynasty and the Obrenović dynasty, while Albania offers both William of Wied and Zog. DuncanHill (talk) 13:22, 19 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Zog reminds me, no one has mentioned Emperor Bokassa. —Tamfang (talk) 03:44, 23 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Napoleon and Bernardotte were not noble, AFAICR. If you allow the Bonapartes, Joseph I Bonaparte. And Napoleon III, who enthroned Maximilian of Mexico.

In the Balkans, the first modern king of Bulgaria (Saxe-Coburg-Gotha?), the first King of Greece, the first King of Romania.

--Error (talk) 17:29, 19 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I thought that Napoleon's family came from minor Corsican nobility? Also, was there ever a Joseph II Bonaparte? Futurist110 (talk) 18:59, 19 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Jean Bernadotte (only one ⟨r⟩) was indeed not from a noble family. --Lambiam 18:03, 19 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

That's now the third time we've linked the same person by a different variation on his name. --Jayron 32 18:05, 19 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The first king of Bulgaria, the first king of Belgium and the husband of Queen Victoria were all closely related. The first king of Greece was a prince of ~~Denmark~~ Bavaria (the second royal house was from Denmark). Romania, a Hohenzollern iirc, but not from the Prussian branch? (Too sleepy to look up any of this now.) —Tamfang (talk) 03:44, 23 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Excellent examples, everyone! Futurist110 (talk) 19:01, 19 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

One obscure count gave rise to kings of Bohemia, Hungary, Croatia, Galicia, Portugal, Spain (and their respective colonies), as well as rulers of several principalities in the Netherlands and Italy, and emperors of Austria, Austria-Hungary and Mexico. DuncanHill (talk) 14:33, 20 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Very interesting; thank you! Futurist110 (talk) 18:36, 21 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

King Baldwin II of Jerusalem came from pretty much nowhere - his family were minor Capetian nobles. Adam Bishop (talk) 00:15, 21 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Baldwin II came from the House of Rethel, not from the House of Capet. Unless by "Capetian", you meant "coming from within Capetian France" as opposed to literally being a member of the Capetian dynasty. Futurist110 (talk) 18:35, 21 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Ehh they're all related somehow, haha. But that's even better, the house of Rethel was nothing important at the time. Adam Bishop (talk) 00:27, 22 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]