Humanities desk
< May 18	<< Apr \| May \| Jun >>	May 20 >

Welcome to the Wikipedia Humanities Reference Desk Archives
The page you are currently viewing is an archive page. While you can leave answers for any questions shown below, please ask new questions on one of the current reference desk pages.

May 19

How can you sue an entire country?

I was watching this video where John Oliver explains that tobacco companies would sue entire countries in an attempt to coerce them into changing their rules and laws regarding tobacco products. But I was wondering how they can enforce this? Let's say some nameless court rules in favor of the tobacco company. Ok so what? What's stopping the country from ignoring the ruling and doing whatever they want anyway? How do they enforce rulings on an entire country? ScienceApe (talk) 00:58, 19 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not sure what JO is referring to (watching him gives me hives), but generally speaking it was historically possible for private individuals to being suit against a foreign sovereign for some wrong. It's not necessary for a court to rule against the foreign sovereign, but the costs of defending could be enormous. But let's say there was a judgment. The judgement would be enforced in terms of monetary damages against some real property, goods, or funds held in the country of jurisdiction on behalf of the foreign state. On the off chance the foreign state chose to waive its sovereign immunity in its own courts, they could be sued in their own jurisdiction and potentially have a more binding judgment against them—for instance, in the US you can sometimes sue the government on constitutional grounds. The judgment isn't what the tobacco company would want necessarily, but a settlement that the foreign state would agree to change internal regulations in favor of the company. —/Mendaliv/^2¢/_Δ's/ 02:01, 19 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

See Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership#Democracy and national sovereignty, foreign investor protection and Investor-state dispute settlement. Nanonic (talk) 06:24, 19 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The "Investor-state dispute settlement" has specific mention of tobacco. Anyway two cases with articles are Philip Morris v. Uruguay, RJR-MacDonald Inc v Canada (AG). There is also [1] [2] which is mentioned here [[Plain tobacco packaging#Tobacco industry response]. Note that beyond direct challenges, tobacco companies may be able to convince tobacco growing nations to assist them e.g. [3] [4]. Indonesia is one place where there often seems to be disputes between the health ministry and others involved or concerned about health issues who want restrictions on tobacco, and the trade ministry and related ministries and many of those concerned about trade isues who are considering fighting those regulations in other countries, where possible. BTW while not related to tobacco, cases like ARA Libertad (Q-2) show that there's a risk beyond the threat of retaliation and enforcement by local courts. Nil Einne (talk) 17:28, 19 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Citizens of the European Community can sue member countries through the European Court of Human Rights. Companies can do it through the European Court. 78.145.24.30 (talk) 11:36, 20 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The European Court of Human Rights (ECHR) is not an institution of the European Union. One does not have to be a citizen of the European Union, or indeed a citizen of one of the far greater number of countries that comes under the jurisdiction of the ECHR. See for example Othman (Abu Qatada) v. United Kingdom where the litigant was not a citizen of any ECHR country. Similarly, for matters which fall under the jurisdiction of the European Court of Justice (ECJ), both companies and individuals may bring suits - see List of European Court of Justice rulings which includes many brought by individuals - although these are more typically brought against a specific institution within a country rather the country as a whole. Valiantis (talk) 13:43, 20 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The court is the progeny of the Council of Europe, of which the UK was a founder member. The EU has appropriated the Council of Europe's flag, which confuses everybody no end. Alansplodge (talk) 15:21, 20 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Which kind of yellow jacket?

What kind of jacket is the woman wearing in The Yellow Jacket (1907) by William McGregor Paxton? Does it have a name? Gabbe (talk) 11:17, 19 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe a poncho? --Jayron 32 11:52, 19 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Mmm... I think it looks more like some sort of hanfu. A ruqun, perhaps? Or aoqun? Anyway, sartorial aspects of imperial China is not my area of expertise. Gabbe (talk) 12:25, 19 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Following that line of thinking, maybe a Kimono if it were Japanese instead? --Jayron 32 13:11, 19 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

(edit conflict) It looks like a men's robe to me for some reason. That might be from the sleeve length and that it doesn't look to be tightly wrapped around the waist. It could be a beizi of some kind. Of course, this could also be a state of partial undressing, but given the studying theme of the work that seems unlikely. But it's been awhile since I've read up on this stuff. —/Mendaliv/^2¢/_Δ's/ 13:17, 19 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

In general, it should also be noted that Orientalism reached its peak in America in the early part of the 20th century, when this was painted. This article discusses Orientalism in fashion, and this work here notes how and when Orientalism took hold in America. So, since we all seem to be heading towards garments from the Far East, and since Paxton painted images of the upper classes of Boston, it seems likely that Orientalism would be showing up in the fashion here. --Jayron 32 13:34, 19 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

As further context, I notice that in the linked article on Paxton, one painting included there shows another young woman in an oriental-style garment, and a second shows a maidservant (Paxton's?) dusting a Japanese porcelain figure. Additionally, the text mentions that Paxton's wife frequently modeled for him, and a third included painting, of her, makes it plausible that she is also the model in the painting in question. This suggests that the Paxton's themselves favoured orientalist themes, and that the yellow jacket in question may have been their own property/prop. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 185.74.232.130 (talk) 14:13, 19 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I was thinking something like that. It could be just about anything, including something made for export, or made in the west in imitation of Chinese style then long since dead. —/Mendaliv/^2¢/_Δ's/ 16:03, 19 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I think it's a Manchu style rather than a Han style, from the shape of the sleeves. --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 19:39, 19 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Okay Gabbe I think I've got it. It's a style of ao (襖) jacket that was quite popular around the turn of the century / in the early 20th century, which adopted the styling of turn-of-the-century cheongsam. The Soong sisters were often photographed wearing them - and are still often depicted wearing them in contemporary media. --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 09:25, 20 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Parentage of Harvey Bailey

Hi. My query is about Harvey Bailey. The article doesn´t speak about his parents. What were their names? Thanks. Darase1981 (talk) 14:20, 19 May 2016 (UTC) (edit request posted by SemanticMantis (talk) 15:38, 19 May 2016 (UTC))[reply]

A family tree at ancestry.com says that his father was John H Bailey who died 1908 Sullivan County Missouri and his mother was named Amanda Elizabeth. Edison (talk) 21:57, 19 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]