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October 27

Johnny Bananas season of the nickname

What was the first season of The Challenge that Johnny Devenanzio was referred to as Johnny Bananas? (78.18.160.168 (talk) 00:38, 27 October 2024 (UTC))[reply]

Devenanzio earned the nickname "Johnny Bananas" during his time in college at Penn State. Because of his crazy antics at PSU, friends and classmates would often comment that his pranks were "bananas" and the nickname stuck. 68.187.174.155 (talk) 18:26, 30 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Ok so this was before his first season of The Challenge? (78.18.160.168 (talk) 01:18, 1 November 2024 (UTC))[reply]

First attestation of octave equivalence in the use of letters A to G as notes of music?

What's the first attestation of |A, B, C, D, E, F, G, a, b, c, d, e, f, g, aa, bb, cc, dd, ee, ff, gg| as notes of music (or any other system based on the letters A to G that assumes octave equivalence)? What's the first attestation of the low Γ (Gamma) added below the low A? What's the first attestation of the round b and round bb (minuscules; no round capital B) to refer to B flat in the middle and high octaves? (No B flat and so no round capital B in the low octave, at least in the Guidonian system, since there cannot be a solmization hexachord that contains it, but other theorists possibly did accept a low B flat).

Boethius mentioned in Letter notation does not assume octave equivalence. His notation uses A to P for a two octaves system, the first octave (starting at our note A) being: |A, B, C, D, E, F, G, H| and the second octave being: |H, I, K, L, M, N, O, P|. (There was no letter J yet). Our note A is notated A or H or P depending on the octave. So Boethius is not the answer to my query.

178.51.16.158 (talk) 18:59, 27 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The American Cyclopaedia (1883) calls it "St. Gregory's Notation", "that of Pope Gregory in the 6th century".^[1] A Dictionary of Music and Musicians (1895) confusingly states that this system was formed "[b]efore the 6th century, certainly during the time of Gregory the Great".^[2] (Pope Gregory I's reign was from 590 to 604.) However, The Cambridge Companion to Medieval Music (2011) dismisses this claim, stating there is "no direct evidence of chant notation until around the middle of the ninth century".^[3] --Lambiam 06:36, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

See Helmholtz pitch notation? --136.56.165.118 (talk) 13:53, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Dialogus de musica (c. 11th c.) is a music treatise formerly attributed to Odo of Arezzo. The Cambridge History of Western Music Theory (2002) describes innovations in letter notation introduced in this treatise, referring to its author as "Pseudo-Odo", as follows:

Pseudo-Odo names these notes (except for gamma) with the same octave-based series of Latin letters that we still use today (A—G). He also introduces two graphic conventions that remained in use well beyond the end of the Middle Ages: the use of capital, lower-case, and doubled lowercase letters to differentiate octave related notes (A—G, a—g, aa); and the use of two forms of the letter “b” for the two pitches available as alternative forms of the “ninth step”: the “square b” (b quadratum), written ♮ as the symbol for “hard b” (b durum), our “b-natural,” and “round b” (b rotundum), written ♭ as the symbol for “soft b” (b molle), our “b-flat.” (The modern symbols for “flat,” “natural,” and “sharp” derive from these.) See Table 11.7. Guido keeps all of this, and adds four more notes above aa, notated as ♭♭/♮♮ cc, and dd. The note ee was later added to complete a hexachord on g (see below).^[4]

Historically, it would be better to refer to the letters as majuscules and minuscules, as this predates the adoption of bicameral script [added 12:50, 30 October 2024 (UTC): and movable type]. --Lambiam 17:53, 29 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I agree. ~~Or "capitals" and "minuscules".~~ (Possibly the term "capital" is only used in the context of a bicameral script?)

Does the Cambridge History of Western Music Theory say whether pseudo-Odo accepted the low B flat?

Like I noted above Guido did not. There's a funny passage in his Epistle to monk Michel (Epistola ad Michelem) where if I remember correctly he goes (more or less, I'm obviously paraphrasing): "A low B flat? Are you nuts? What next? An F sharp?" Incidentally my mention of ff and gg above is in practice erroneous. The notation can express those notes, but in the Guidonian system they cannot exist for the same reason that the low B flat cannot exist: there is no (complete) hexachord that contains them: to get an ff and gg you would have to have a hexachord placed on cc but the 'la' of that hexachord would be a super-high A: aaa that's outside the system, which would make that hexachord incomplete. So, in practice, for him the highest note is the ee which is the 'la' of the hexachord placed on g. For some reason Guido only accepted complete hexachords. Similarly a low B flat could exist if Guido had only accepted a hexachord placed on a super-low F below the Γ but such a note is again outside the system, which would make that hexachord incomplete and Guido won't have it. 178.51.16.158 (talk) 05:19, 30 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I forget to add a link to the cited passage, now inserted. Immediately following it is this table of the scale of Pseudo-Odo's Dialogus:

“Step:”

1

2

3

4

5

6

7

8

9

10

11

12

13

14

15

Γ

A

B

C

D

E

F

G

a

♭

♮

c

d

e

f

g

aa

t

s

t

s

t

s

t

s

t

There is only one B, a tone up from A and a semitone down from C. --Lambiam 18:21, 30 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]