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May 25

Citizenship and Olympics

According to Rugby sevens at the 2016 Summer Olympics, if Ireland make the 2016 tournament, rugby players from Northern Ireland would have to play for an all-Ireland team. This leads to two questions, 1) would a Northern Ireland player have to possess an Irish passport to compete (not just be eligible); and 2) are there other examples where athletes are forced to represent a country other than their own? Hack (talk) 04:30, 25 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I'm simplifying this a bit, but the Republic of Ireland considers that anyone born on the island of Ireland is an Irish citizen, even if they are from Northern Ireland and are technically UK citizens. See these FAQ from the Irish Naturalisation and Immigration Service. So to answer question 1, no they would not, and they would not even need an Irish passport to be considered citizens of Ireland in general. Adam Bishop (talk) 10:13, 25 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Ah, I suppose I could have just looked on Wikipedia - we have an article on Irish nationality law. Adam Bishop (talk) 10:14, 25 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I wonder if you know but the Ireland national rugby union team (Six Nations, World Cup) also represents the whole island. What do you mean by "forced to represent a country other than their own"? Those teams represent the whole island. Players from both parts of Ireland play for a unified team. It's not like players from Northern Ireland are made to play for the Republic of Ireland or vice versa. As to your more general question I think there were similar cases. Start with Unified Team at the Olympics and Korean Unification Flag and go from there. Contact Basemetal here 12:30, 25 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

When I say forced, I meant if they wanted to play Olympic rugby, they'd have to play for a country that they may not necessarily identify with. While the All-Ireland concept is in place for a handful of sports, it's not been at this sort of level. Hack (talk) 12:58, 25 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

How about the Rugby World Cup? That's the very highest level of the sport, and Ireland play in that as an all-island team. DuncanHill (talk) 17:24, 25 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@DuncanHill: Nationality of a union isn't ordinarily required to play international rugby. For an example Quade Cooper was not an Australian citizen when he began playing for Australia in the 15-a-side game.[1] Hack (talk) 08:09, 27 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@Hack:I know. I was making the point that at the highest level in rugby, Ireland play as an all-island team in response to your comment "I meant if they wanted to play Olympic rugby, they'd have to play for a country that they may not necessarily identify with. While the All-Ireland concept is in place for a handful of sports, it's not been at this sort of level" above. DuncanHill (talk) 10:30, 27 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I don't understand the word 'forced' in this. You can only play Olympic Rugby if you have qualified to do so. These qualification stages are arranged by the sport's International Federation (World Rugby in this case). You can't qualify for a country not recognised by the IF and once qualification begins, you generally can't change your sporting nationality. I'm not aware of, and can't find any instances of, anyone who's qualified for the Olympic games (through qualification stages arranged by a particular sports' governing body or IOC recognised International Federation) being forced to change their sporting nationality to another (except due to not meeting eligibilty - see Grannygate). Even after the dissolution of the USSR, the athletes and sportspersons could choose (within reason) who to represent in future games. A handful of International Federations (FIFA for one) have rules whereby your sporting nationality is set once you are selected for a particular country, you can't change it afterwards whilst some sports let you change however much you like (In Equestrian, you just fill out a form). Those who have already qualified but their countries are no longer recognised by the IOC, or whose NOC have been sanctioned for whatever reason, can apply to compete as Independent Olympians. If you live in ROI or NI and are good enough to play Rugby at a national or Olympic level you would play for the Ireland national rugby union team which represents both countries unless you changed your sporting nationality (via the grandfather rule or similar). This is because there is only one governing body on the whole island and they have chosen to have one representative team. Nanonic (talk) 13:58, 25 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I've found the relevant WR regulation. The usual, relatively straightforward, eligibility rules are much, much more complicated for Olympic-related sevens matches.[2] Hack (talk) 15:23, 25 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Formula 1

In the Jenson Button article, it states he has had 274 races with 271 starts. How is this possible. Widneymanor (talk) 16:56, 25 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Hello Widneymanor You might want to post this question at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Formula One as the members of that project might have a better understanding of how the items in the infobox are listed. MarnetteD|Talk 17:04, 25 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

It means he is recorded as DNS (did not start) for three races (all listed in that article - search it for DNS). That means he was one of his team's nominated drives for that race weekend, but was unable to start the race due to mechanical failure or for medical reasons. -- Finlay McWalterᚠTalk 17:11, 25 May 2015 (UT

Thanks for the quick answer Finlay McWalter! Thank goodness you didn't get pulled into the pits for a tire change while you were leading :-) MarnetteD|Talk 17:15, 25 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Here's the three reasons:

2003 Monaco Grand Prix - crashed in practice - it looks like he tried to qualify despite spending the night in hospital, but the team retired him during qualification, which is why he's listed as DNS and not DNQ. edit: as he completed a run in Q1 he did qualify, even though he didn't drive in Q2
2005 United States Grand Prix - that's the infamous race where most of the field, including Button, refused to start citing safety concerns with the track surface. As they qualified, but didn't cross the start-finish line at all during the race, they're all listed as DNS.
2015 Bahrain Grand Prix - a problem with the ERS prevented the car from starting the race.

-- Finlay McWalterᚠTalk 17:25, 25 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for such speedy responses. Widneymanor (talk) 19:12, 25 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]