Wikipedia:Peer review/Ram Narayan/archive1

Ram Narayan

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A script has been used to generate a semi-automated review of the article for issues relating to grammar and house style; it can be found on the automated peer review page for June 2009.

This peer review discussion has been closed.

Hi, I've listed this this musician's biography for peer review because I want to improve the article further and find out whether it has any FAC potential. Thank you very much. Hekerui (talk) 15:18, 16 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Finetooth comments: This is a good article, and it is most interesting. It is neutral, verifiable, stable, and generally well-written. It might not be comprehensive, although I'm hardly in a position to say for sure. I've made a couple of suggestions below for possible expansion. I'm not sure what to say about the images except that I like them, and I think that they fit the text, but I'm unsure about the licensing questions. I have a few suggestions related to prose and Manual of Style issues.

Lead

Since the article is India-centric, shouldn't the dates be in d-m-y format; e.g. 25 December 1927 instead of December 25, 1927?

Changed.

"Narayan was born in Udaipur, Rajasthan... " - For readers who live far from India, it might be better to say "Narayan was born in Udaipur in the Indian state of Rajasthan... ".

Done.

Early life

"despite his father's initial worries due to the low status of the sarangi" - "about" rather than "due to"?

Agreed.

"After a year, Biyavat asked for his son to learn under sarangi player Mehboob Khan of Jaipur, but Khan required Narayan to change his technique, which his father refused." - Suggestion: "After a year, Biyavat sought lessons for his son from sarangi player Mehboob Khan of Jaipur, but he changed his mind when Khan said that Narayan would have to change his technique."

Modified.

"Prasad later visited Narayan and convinced him to vacate his position to improve as a musician, but the decision to give up a secure existence... " - "the idea of giving up" rather than "the decision to give up" since the decision was not to vacate his position?

Clarified.

Career

"but the station's music producer noticed grooves in Narayan's fingernails" - I assume that was a clear sign that Narayan played the sarangi, but it would be good to explain how this works. Readers unfamiliar with the sarangi might want to know where the grooves come from exactly? How many strings does a sarangi have? Why do they produce nail grooves rather than skin calluses?

Added explanation.

"Narayan learnt only through singing" - "learned" rather than "learnt"?

Oy! Changed.

"He accompanied Amir Khan in 1948, when Khan sang for the first time at AIR Delhi following the Indian partition." - "after partition" rather than "following the Indian partition" since "Indian partition" appears in the preceding sentence?

Right.

"As an accompanist for vocalists, Narayan refused to stay in the background of a performance to imitate the singer, but instead showed his own skill." - I'm not sure what "to imitate the singer" means in this context. Would it be more clear simply to delete these four words? Or perhaps here is a place for minor expansion of the article to provide a little more background for the reader unfamiliar with this music genre. Does the accompanist always echo the notes of the singer? Do they take turns playing solo, or do they play a kind of duet? Are more than two musicians ever involved?

Expanded.

"Narayan frequently taught and gave concert outside of India since the 1960s." - Suggestion: "Beginning in the 1960s, Narayan often taught and gave concerts outside of India."

That's better.

"Some vocalists complained he was not a consistent accompanist and assertive... " - "and that he was too assertive" rather than "and assertive"?

Agreed.

"*"He resides in Mumbai, is of Hindu faith, and continues to perform in 2009." - This sentence suggests another possibility for expansion of the article. "Early life" gives biographical details through 1944, but what about his life after that? Could the material about his faith, his wife, his children, the struggle with alcohol, his dwelling places, other relationships and other interests be moved to a separate section, "Adulthood" or "Family" or something like that?

Made extra section.

Style

Wikilink harp and gut?

Yeah, I linked them.

"He created a few original compositions and varies those he learnt in performance." - "learned" rather than "learnt"?

Contributions and recognition

"Aruna Narayan Kalle, the first female sarangi player to play a solo concert" - Suggestion: "the first woman to give a solo sarangi concert"

That's better.

"The Pt Ram Narayan Foundation in Mumbai... " - What does the Pt in this name mean? Is it an abbreviation?

Explained.

References

Newspaper titles should appear in italics in the citations. The odd trick of the {{cite news}} template here is to use the |work = parameter for the newspaper rather than the |publisher = parameter.

What if the AP authors something and it is published in the Washington Post? :) I improved the cites.

I hope these suggestions prove helpful. If so, please consider reviewing another article, especially one from the PR backlog. That is where I found this one. Finetooth (talk) 02:49, 24 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you very much. Hekerui (talk) 17:45, 24 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Redtigerxyz's comments

A section about "Personal life" like wife, children, marriage etc. Name of mother missing. The Biography is a good place to look for these things

--Redtigerxyz ^Talk 06:18, 24 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

~~I added family information, but there is nothing about his mother of wife anywhere (at least in Englisch, I think).~~ Funny, his great-great-grandmother is mentioned in Sorrell, but she's not relevant. Hekerui (talk) 17:45, 24 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I am surprised: The Biography should have something about the two women. Things like when he was married, when the children were born must be in the biography or any where. It's strange the children are mentioned, but the mother. For FA completeness criterion, the two women, the marriage and birth-yrs of children have to be mentioned.

I just combed through Qureshi again and found two tiny mentions of Narayan's wife, but without a name. I added birthyears of his daughter and Brij Narayan, as well as Charanjit Lal. I added more other family info as well.

Also, as you may know, Pandit is a title, NOT an alias name. The Pandit title must be acknowledged in the lead. Few men and women earn titles like Pandit, Ustad and Vidushi

I looked at the MOS:BIO and it's not spelled out clearly. However, I think it's okay to put it back into the lead.

--Redtigerxyz ^Talk 05:30, 25 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you, what else do you think is left to improve? --Hekerui (talk) 12:32, 25 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

There must be a mention of the two women in some Hindi (non-English) sources. "She later died." has no value without a yr. "Later" is a vague term. --Redtigerxyz ^Talk 13:28, 25 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

In the book Aruna Narayan is quoted as saying "Yes, we miss her just like my mother." about the death of another female sarangi player, and this statement is dated to November 2001, so I'll write that her mother died prior to 2001. This is not precise, but a little better. Hekerui (talk) 13:46, 25 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I am still worried about the comprehensiveness thing: there is too less detail in the article. More needed about the solo performances and international tours. To which cities has he travelled etc.
I will add some more info.
The references section does not follow WP:Layout: Notes and References need to be different.--Redtigerxyz ^Talk 13:53, 25 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
There are no "explanatory notes that would be awkward in the body text", only "citations that verify the information in the article". No need to seperate. Hekerui (talk) 18:37, 26 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]