Wikipedia:Peer review/List of Manchester City F.C. players (25–99 appearances)/archive1

List of Manchester City F.C. players (25–99 appearances)

This peer review discussion has been closed.
I've listed this article for peer review because having recently created it, I'm looking at a possible Featured List nomination. Its a while since I've headed to FLC, so I thought a peer review would be sensible to iron out as many issues as possible beforehand. In terms of the subject matter, it does more or less what it says on the tin. The split at 25 and 100 appearances is a standard one for lists of this size, and similar examples are current FLs. Those current FLs, particularly List of Birmingham City F.C. players (25–99 appearances) have been blatantly copied the inspiration for this list.

Please point out any mistakes, niggles or otherwise non-FL worthy features. One such example I am already aware of is the lack of a decent source for Kernaghan and Kennedy's Ireland caps, my search for one has thus far proved fruitless.

Thanks, Oldelpaso (talk) 15:34, 2 June 2013 (UTC)

Comments

• Could link Football League in the opening para.
• Dare one ask for a couple of refs in the lead, e.g. when Ardwick -> MCFC?
• Surprised that we don't link to the glossary for "starting eleven", is it even in there?
• Could make lead image larger, I think we're still allowed to go up 300px.
• "at the club's Maine Road ground in April 2003" minor point, would like to know where they play now, but without causing this sentence to be too massive....
• "in the club's 2011 FA Cup win" perhaps victory rather than "win"?
• George Mann is a dab link.
• So is Harry Middleton.
• Could have a few more images if available since the list is quite long?
• Check refs for en-dash!
• "Transfermarkt" I'm not sure if we still consider that WP:RS, I recall some traffic about it, not clear on the conclusion mind you.

The Rambling Man (talk) 17:12, 2 June 2013 (UTC)

Comments

• I don't review prose, even before it became clear that football editors were inherently incapable of recognising good prose if they saw any
• Opening line: are you sure they entered in the 1891-89 season?
• You're not noting any players that were on loan?
• Woosnam (94 apps), Broadis (79), Davies/Williamson (62), McCourt/Morris (61), some at (51/50), Baker (39), Javi Garcia (32), Francis (29), are either out of total apps/date of debut order, or there's a mistake in one of those fields
• Featured list criterion 5a requires that "a minimal proportion of items are redlinked". While I understand entirely why one might not want to go round creating dozens of stublets like we used to do under the old rules (although I didn't let such reluctance stop me where the Lincoln City F.C. player lists were concerned :-) I might hold off nominating until there are rather fewer redlinks than the current ~43.
• Transfermarkt has its enthusiasts, see this at RS/N, but IMO it isn't a reliable source for international caps
• Your ref formatting is inconsistent: need to decide whether each source is a work or a publisher and italicise or not as appropriate; whether authors are to be surname-first, as James, Gary, or surname-last, as Julian Baskcomb
• RSSSF sources need authors and publication dates
• Foreign-language sources need a translation of the title, unless it's just someone's name or whatever; there's a |trans_title= parameter if you're using cite-web templates

Hope some of this helps, cheers, Struway2 (talk) 08:56, 3 June 2013 (UTC)

• Also, when I was missing a source for one player's caps in the BCFC<25 list, I submitted it to FLC with the wording "If no reliable source has yet been found for the exact number of full international caps won by a player during his career with the club, his entry in the caps column will contain a reference for his having been capped during the relevant period" in the key. As it turned out, I did manage to find a source for the offending item during the review period, but it's probably better having just a ref for him being capped at all while with the club than including an unsourced number, even if the number is correct. cheers, Struway2 (talk) 07:45, 4 June 2013 (UTC)

• Thanks to both of you. About half done, and plenty to be getting on with for the other half. For loans, I simply don't have the sources. There is no book on the club that covers it. Neil Brown's site is about as comprehensive as exists, but that misses some and doesn't indicate loans for loan-to-permanent moves.
• Looks like I'll have to do more digging on the international caps front. This list is the easy one to source; >100 and <25 have the likes of Bermuda and Liberia to contend with.
• I tend to be pretty substub-averse. My rule of thumb for when to go ahead is the DYK eligibility criteria of 1500 characters (though only nominating those with genuinely interesting hooks). So getting it to say 10% could be a while yet. That's no reason not to get it FLC-ready with respect to the other criteria, of course. Oldelpaso (talk) 18:22, 5 June 2013 (UTC)

Comments Not a lot to add to the above, just a few bits regarding international selection.

• Using Hugman, Barry J., ed. (2005). The PFA Premier & Football League Players' Records 1946–2005. Queen Anne Press. ISBN 978-1-85291-665-7., I've found a few more internationals:
  • Jason Beckford (England youth, p. 51).
  • Lee Crooks (England youth, p. 146)
  • Peter Dobing (England under-23, p. 172)
  • Alan Harper (England youth, p. 268)
  • Keith MacRae (Scotland under-23, p. 407)
  • Jim Melrose (Scotland under-21, p. 423)
  • Paul Moulden (England youth, p. 443)
  • Mark Seagraves (England youth, p. 551)
  • David Shawcross (England under-23, p. 556)
  • Gordon Smith (Scotland under-21, p. 571)
  • Tony Vaughan (England youth, p. 627)
  • Alf Wood (England youth, p. 671)
• David Sommeil was capped by Guadeloupe per National Football Teams.
• Soccerway would be a good source to use with recent internationals. One player I've looked up on the site is Sergio Aguero, and it shows he's garnered a lot more than three caps since signing for Man City.
• Does the source you've used refer to Dave Bacuzzi as an England under-19 international? Back then the England youth team fielded under-18s only so I don't think under-19 can be correct.

Cheers, Mattythewhite (talk) 23:27, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

Thank you very much for those refs. For Sommeil, I'm not so sure about including Guadeloupe, as they're a non-FIFA country and he also has France B caps. In Bacuzzi's case, the source said "England youth", the mislabelling was my fault. Oldelpaso (talk) 17:52, 13 June 2013 (UTC)