Wikipedia:Peer review/Elephant/archive2

Elephant

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I've listed this article for peer review because I would like for it to be prepared for FAC.

Thanks, LittleJerry (talk) 00:49, 6 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

From "Taxonomy", subsection "Classification, species and subspecies", paragraph 1: "The teeth of the African elephants are more diamond-shaped dental loops." I don't understand what that means. Axl ¤ [Talk] 22:23, 6 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 00:02, 7 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I still don't understand the new text. Axl ¤ [Talk] 00:22, 7 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

They are referring to this. LittleJerry (talk) 01:09, 7 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I found this website, which explains the matter. I have adjusted the article's text to clarify this and added the reference. Can you please fix the referencing for the preceding sentence? Axl ¤ [Talk] 11:16, 7 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Done. LittleJerry (talk) 16:23, 7 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. Axl ¤ [Talk] 21:44, 7 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

In "Taxonomy", subsection "Evolution and extinct relatives", the picture of a "fossil of early proboscidean Moeritherium lyonsi" looks like a jaw bone (upper jaw?). The picture should have a more accurate caption. Axl ¤ [Talk] 22:49, 6 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 00:02, 7 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

From "Taxonomy", subsection "Evolution and extinct relatives", last paragraph: "the neck shortened to provide better leverage for the skull." I don't see why a shorter neck would provide better leverage for the skull. Axl ¤ [Talk] 23:09, 6 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The skull is too big and heavy to be on an enlongated neck. LittleJerry (talk) 00:02, 7 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

That's not "better leverage". I have changed "leverage" to "support". Axl ¤ [Talk] 00:27, 7 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

From "Taxonomy", subsection "Evolution and extinct relatives", last paragraph: "The middle incisors grew into tusks." Should this be the upper second incisors? Axl ¤ [Talk] 23:15, 6 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 00:02, 7 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

From "Anatomy and morphology", paragraph 2: "The skull is lightened by air cavities which can also absorb impacts." The air cavities can absorb impacts? Axl ¤ [Talk] 21:47, 7 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

That's what the source says. "...the orientation of the honey-comb cells also suggests that this structure is designed to absorb all manner of forces." LittleJerry (talk) 22:51, 7 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

That's not quite the same meaning. I found this reference. How about this: "The skull contains air cavities (sinuses) that reduce the weight of the skull while maintaining overall strength." Axl ¤ [Talk] 23:48, 9 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Done. The source I have confirms it. LittleJerry (talk) 00:21, 10 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

~~In "Anatomy and morphology", subsection "Trunk", last paragraph, are the "objects" food? Axl ¤ [Talk] 22:21, 10 November 2012 (UTC)~~[reply]

Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 00:47, 11 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

From "Anatomy and morphology", subsection "Teeth": "Elephants usually have 26 teeth: the two upper second incisors, known as the tusks, 12 deciduous premolars, and 12 molars." If the tusks are upper second incisors, what about the other incisors? Axl ¤ [Talk] 22:27, 10 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Fixed. Elephants lost their other incisors. LittleJerry (talk) 00:47, 11 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

It would be good to mention what happened to the other incisors. Axl ¤ [Talk] 09:35, 11 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The last paragraph of evolution mentions this. LittleJerry (talk) 15:37, 11 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

That paragraph mentions that the number of incisors decreased. If elephants don't have any other incisors, in what sense are the tusks "second incisors"? Axl ¤ [Talk] 19:42, 11 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

~~Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 21:22, 11 November 2012 (UTC)~~[reply]

Technically they aren't now but they were originally during its evolutionary history. Hence why it says "developed from". LittleJerry (talk) 05:01, 12 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The current text is misleading. The "Evolution and extinct relatives" subsection doesn't mention the upper second incisors at all. Axl ¤ [Talk] 10:56, 12 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 20:21, 12 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I have adjusted the text in the "Tusks" subsection. Axl ¤ [Talk] 00:12, 13 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Okay. LittleJerry (talk) 01:36, 13 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

From "Anatomy and morphology", subsection "Skin", paragraph 3: "Elephants have difficulty in releasing heat through the skin because, in proportion to their body size, they have very little of it." How about "Elephants have difficulty releasing heat through the skin because of their high surface-area-to-volume ratio." Axl ¤ [Talk] 21:13, 15 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 00:53, 16 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

From "Anatomy and morphology", subsection "Legs, locomotion and posture", paragraph 1: "To support the animal's weight, an elephant's limbs are positioned vertically under the body (sometimes referred to as columnar) as opposed to angularly as in most other mammals." Do most other mammals really have angularly positioned limbs? Axl ¤ [Talk] 21:17, 15 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Perhaps this could explain things. Most mammals are the second, elephants are the third. LittleJerry (talk) 00:53, 16 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The current text doesn't explain that. Indeed the second category is described as "erect", not "angular". Axl ¤ [Talk] 09:34, 16 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Changed. LittleJerry (talk) 17:26, 16 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

From "Anatomy and morphology", subsection "Legs, locomotion and posture", paragraph 1: "The long bones of the limbs have dense cancellous bones in place of marrow cavities. This allows for the creation of blood cells and gives the bones more strength to support the body." These statements are misleading. Cancellous bone is not dense—at least not in comparison to cortical bone. The medullary cavity (marrow cavity) is normally involved in blood cell creation. Axl ¤ [Talk] 22:07, 15 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Fixed. The source said it's "a network of dense cancelous (preforated) bone..." LittleJerry (talk) 00:53, 16 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Then the source itself is misleading. It would be better not to mention "dense" at all. Axl ¤ [Talk] 09:45, 16 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Done. LittleJerry (talk) 17:26, 16 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I have changed the text. Axl ¤ [Talk] 23:45, 16 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

From "Anatomy and morphology", subsection "Legs, locomotion and posture", paragraph 1: "Elephants are incapable of rotating their front limbs, as the ulna and radius are stiffened in one position." Are the ulna and radius fixed to each other? Axl ¤ [Talk] 09:52, 16 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 17:26, 16 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I'm still not sure what it means. In the human forearm, the ulna articulates with the radius to allow pronation and supination. I suspect that in the elephant, this articulation does not occur. Axl ¤ [Talk] 23:51, 16 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Better? LittleJerry (talk) 02:03, 17 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

How about "fixed in pronation"? Axl ¤ [Talk] 09:57, 17 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Done. LittleJerry (talk) 16:43, 17 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

From "Anatomy and morphology", subsection "Legs, locomotion and posture", paragraph 3: "Despite being unable to rotate the front limbs, they can move well through rough terrain." Why should limb rotation help with moving through rough terrain? Axl ¤ [Talk] 10:38, 16 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Deleted. LittleJerry (talk) 17:26, 16 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

From "Anatomy and morphology", subsection "Internal and sexual organs", paragraph 2: "Francis Gano Benedict estimated that the elephant's heart beats 28 times per minute while standing and 35 times per minute while lying down, which is slower than a human's in both cases." There isn't really any need to mention Francis Gano Benedict, is there? Nor is there any need to mention the comparison to humans? Axl ¤ [Talk] 10:37, 17 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 16:43, 17 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

From "Anatomy and morphology", subsection "Internal and sexual organs", paragraph 2: "The animal relies on the diaphragm to aid in respiration rather than the expansion of the ribs." How about "Breathing relies mainly on the diaphragm rather than expansion of the ribcage." Axl ¤ [Talk] 15:18, 17 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 16:43, 17 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

From "Anatomy and morphology", subsection "Internal and sexual organs", paragraph 2: "Elephants have a hindgut fermentation system." What is a "hindgut fermentation system"? Axl ¤ [Talk] 23:16, 17 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Linked. LittleJerry (talk) 23:23, 17 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

From "Anatomy and morphology", subsection "Internal and sexual organs", paragraph 3: "Females have also been observed with secretions." Are these secretions from the temporal glands? Axl ¤ [Talk] 23:21, 17 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Yes. LittleJerry (talk) 23:23, 17 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I have clarified the text. Axl ¤ [Talk] 10:07, 18 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

From "Behavior and life history", subsection "Ecology and activities", paragraph 1: "Asian elephants primarily inhabit single-monsoon, dry thorn-scrub forests." What does "single-monsoon" mean in this context? Axl ¤ [Talk] 10:18, 18 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Not sure, so I removed it. LittleJerry (talk) 22:05, 18 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

From "Behavior and life history", subsection "Ecology and activities", paragraph 2: "Elephants are important seed dispersers; because most of the food they eat goes undigested, their dung can provide food for other animals, such as dung beetles and monkeys." I think that the semi-colon here is not quite right. Are elephants important seed dispersers because most their food is undigested? Axl ¤ [Talk] 00:49, 22 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

That semicolon was put in by the copyeditor. I added back in the "and". LittleJerry (talk) 01:19, 22 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I think that there is more to be said about seed dispersal. I believe that the mechanism is as follows: elephants eat plant food, which happens to contain seeds. The elephants move around, away from the original sources of the seeds. During this time, the seeds pass through the elephants' digestive systems. By the time that the seeds are released in the faeces, the elephants are far from the original source. Also, the seeds are deposited in their own piles of natural fertilizer. Axl ¤ [Talk] 11:09, 22 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Added in more info on seed dispersal by elephants. LittleJerry (talk) 15:58, 22 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. Axl ¤ [Talk] 22:02, 22 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

From "Behavior and life history", subsection "Ecology and activities", paragraph 3: "At Hluhluwe-Umfolozi Game Reserve, South Africa, introduced young orphan elephants went on a killing spree." Should "Hluhluwe-Umfolozi" have an endash rather than a hyphen? (If you're not sure, I shall ask WikiProject South Africa.) Axl ¤ [Talk] 11:52, 22 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Thats how it is in the main article. LittleJerry (talk) 15:58, 22 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I am aware of that. However that is weak, circumstantial evidence. I shall ask WikiProject South Africa. Axl ¤ [Talk] 22:04, 22 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion is here. There doesn't seem to be a clear consensus. However I believe that an endash is more appropriate. I shall change the article. Axl ¤ [Talk] 23:39, 28 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

From "Behavior and life history", subsection "Social organization", paragraph 3: "Adult males and females usually come together for reproduction." "Usually"? Surely they always come together for reproduction? Axl ¤ [Talk] 22:39, 22 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 23:12, 22 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

From "Behavior and life history", subsection "Social organization", paragraph 3: "Bulls appear to associate with family groups randomly, depending on whether the group has an estrous cow." I presume that bulls will associate with family groups if estrous cows are present? Axl ¤ [Talk] 23:24, 22 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Yes. LittleJerry (talk) 23:28, 22 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Can you clarify that in the article please? Axl ¤ [Talk] 23:55, 22 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Done. LittleJerry (talk) 00:13, 23 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. I have adjusted the text. Axl ¤ [Talk] 12:02, 23 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

From "Behavior and life history", subsection "Musth and mating", paragraph 3: "Males become mature sometime later." I presume that this means that males mature at older age than females. Isn't there a more precise estimate? Axl ¤ [Talk] 15:56, 23 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

~~It wasn't given. LittleJerry (talk) 16:17, 23 November 2012 (UTC)~~[reply]

Added. LittleJerry (talk) 16:22, 23 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. Axl ¤ [Talk] 18:45, 23 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

From "Behavior and life history", subsection "Life cycle", paragraph 1: "Being "precocious", a newborn can already stand and walk and will follow its mother and family herd." "Precocious" links to "K-selection", but I don't believe that precociousness is related to K-selection. Axl ¤ [Talk] 23:12, 23 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Changed. LittleJerry (talk) 00:25, 24 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

From "Behavior and life history", subsection "Communication", paragraph 3: "These calls may be used to coordinate the movement of herds and allow male elephants to find mates." This sentence needs a reference. Axl ¤ [Talk] 00:27, 27 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 01:48, 27 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Well, you deleted it while expanding other text. That's fine. Axl ¤ [Talk] 10:27, 27 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

From "Behavior and life history", subsection "Communication", last paragraph: "In addition, the muscle surrounding the external auditory meatus contracts on tactile stimulation." So when something touches the external auditory meatus, the muscle contracts? Axl ¤ [Talk] 10:15, 28 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

~~I don't know, Dr. Chissy added that. LittleJerry (talk) 16:08, 28 November 2012 (UTC)~~[reply]

Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 18:58, 28 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I think that the last paragraph from "Behavior and life history", subsection "Communication" would benefit from further copy-editing to simplify the text. Axl ¤ [Talk] 10:21, 28 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

~~Alerted the copyeditors guild. LittleJerry (talk) 16:08, 28 November 2012 (UTC)~~[reply]

Fixed myself. LittleJerry (talk) 18:58, 28 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

From "Conservation issues", subsection "Status", paragraph 2: "The total population of Asian elephants is estimated to be 52,345–41,410." This range estimate has a higher value as its "lower" number. Axl ¤ [Talk] 11:25, 30 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 17:32, 30 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The limits of the range are very precise. It is implausible to have such a degree of precision, especially when the range is a "crude guess". It would be reasonable to give limits to the nearest 100, although even that may be too precise. What exactly does the reference say? Axl ¤ [Talk] 11:15, 1 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Fixed. This roundoff is also in the reference. LittleJerry (talk) 13:02, 1 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, thanks. Axl ¤ [Talk] 10:52, 2 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

From "Conservation issues", subsection "Threats", paragraph 2: "Bryan Christy of the National Geographic has called this "one of the worst concentrated killings" since the ivory ban." I don't see why Bryan Christy is being named, nor why he is quoted, especially as the reference was written by him. Axl ¤ [Talk] 11:36, 30 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Fixed. Although they might call it weasel wording, hence why I put in the name. LittleJerry (talk) 17:32, 30 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Hmm, I am still uncomfortable with the sentence. Let's leave it for the time being. The FAC reviewers may say more about this. Axl ¤ [Talk] 11:19, 1 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

From "Conservation issues", subsection "Threats", paragraph 2: "Asian elephants are potentially less vulnerable to the ivory trade, as females lack tusks." The "Anatomy and morphology" section mentions that Asian females may have small tusks. Perhaps "... females rarely have tusks." Axl ¤ [Talk] 11:40, 30 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 17:32, 30 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

From "Conservation issues", subsection "Threats", paragraph 2: "However, they have been killed for their ivory in some areas." Is isn't clear whether "they" refers to Asian females or Asian elephants in general. Axl ¤ [Talk] 11:42, 30 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 17:32, 30 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

It's not "the species", they are "members of the species". Axl ¤ [Talk] 11:23, 1 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 13:02, 1 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

From "Elephants and humans", subsection "Beasts of burden", paragraph 1: "Elephants perform various tasks, including ... leading religious ceremonies." Perhaps "leading religious processions" rather than "ceremonies"? Axl ¤ [Talk] 11:53, 30 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 17:32, 30 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

From "Elephants and humans", subsection "Beasts of burden", paragraph 2: "Leopold II of Belgium is known to have captured and trained elephants in the Belgian Congo." Do you know when he did this? Perhaps in the 19th century? Axl ¤ [Talk] 12:00, 30 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 17:32, 30 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

From "Elephants and humans", subsection "Warfare", paragraph 2: "During the Magadha Kingdom, elephants began to archive greater cultural importance than horses." "Archive"? Axl ¤ [Talk] 12:07, 30 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 17:32, 30 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Ah, "achieve". [I fixed the spelling. :-) ] Axl ¤ [Talk] 11:56, 1 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

~~In "Elephants and humans", subsection "Warfare", all of the examples are historical. Can we have some dates (i.e. year or century) please? Axl ¤ [Talk] 11:04, 2 December 2012 (UTC)~~[reply]

Done LittleJerry (talk) 18:07, 2 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Hmm, I'm not sure if it is better with the years in. Let's leave it for the time being and see what the FAC reviewers say. Axl ¤ [Talk] 19:41, 2 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

From "Elephants and humans", subsection "Zoos and circuses", paragraph 1: "Around 1,200 Asian and 700 African elephants are kept in zoos and circuses. The majority are in North America, which has an estimated 370 Asian and 350 African elephants." 720 out of 1,900 is not the majority. Axl ¤ [Talk] 18:19, 4 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 22:29, 4 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

From "Elephants and humans", subsection "Zoos and circuses", paragraph 3: "... although different samples suggests that other zoo elephants live as long those in the wild." What are these "different samples"? Axl ¤ [Talk] 12:53, 5 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Fixed LittleJerry (talk) 21:50, 5 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

From "Elephants and humans", subsection "Zoos and circuses", last paragraph: "Some trainers have tried to train elephants without the use of physical punishment." Using the word "tried" implies that this may have been unsuccessful. Was this unsuccessful? Axl ¤ [Talk] 15:17, 5 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I don't know. The source only gives one example. LittleJerry (talk) 21:50, 5 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Okay. What exactly does the source say? Axl ¤ [Talk] 21:58, 5 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

"At least some circuses have tried to develop more humane methods of gaining compliance from their elephants. Ralph Helfer, for one...." LittleJerry (talk) 23:25, 5 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. In that case, let's leave the sentence as it is. Axl ¤ [Talk] 23:54, 5 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]