Wikipedia:Peer review/Dundee/archive2
- Archive 1 June 2006
Am hoping to bring this to featured article status. Article has undergone a radical overhaul since the last peer review and would appreciate some advice on anything that needs doing to meet the FA criteria. YDAM TALK 21:17, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
- Replaced a few repetitions of 'the city' with 'Dundee'. Berek 09:41, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
- It's pretty good. I didn't check everything, but the lsit of notable Dundeeites needs to be converted to prose and mention only the most notable ones who's notability can be cited to reliable sources. Also I'm assuming most or all of those listed in Dundee (disambiguation) are named after this one. If so that's quite a number and I think it would be worth researching and mentioning if there is some particular reason so many have been named after it. If there's no importance to it, then maybe it's too trivial to mention. - Taxman Talk 14:28, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
- Sorted that list. Most of them were already listed in the prose anyway. As for other places being named after it; as far as I know there isin't a significant reason any more than there is for Boston or Birmingham. I suppose that list is pretty typical of such cities YDAM TALK 14:43, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
- I'm just saying, I don't think many cities so small have that many named after them. There may be something there. But since you've responded so quickly, I've searched for more of what separates this article from featured standard. 1) The twin cities section needs similar treatment to the list of people. If it's not important enough to have some cited prose analysis of the international relations and whether the twin city status actually amounts to anything, it's probably not important enough to be it's own section, and possibly not important enough to be covered at all. 2) Too many short paragraphs cause choppy flow and highlight areas that either need to be expanded, merged with related material, or removed. 3) The word outwith appears to be classic scottish, but arcane enough that most would not know what it means. If you really feel it's valuable to include, figure out a way to define it in context so that it doesn't require looking up so that the sentence is accessible. It looked like a grammar error to me before looking it up. 3) The Wharfs section seems out of place and not important enough to justify it's own subsection. Merge it into wherever is appropriate, either economy or history depending on its current importance. 4) The transport section should probably be replaced by a discussion of the infrastructure in general. 5) The education section needs to discuss the general quality of the school systems by national and international standards. In relation to that, perhaps there is too much coverage of individual prominent schools. 6) Look to other FAs on cities for ideas of the balance of coverage in them. The most useful would probably be Ann Arbor a city of similar size, though its lead is now too short and it's sister cities bit has no context either. If you want my consideration of whether it looks like all that's done and this is ready for FAC, let me know here and I'll have another look. - Taxman Talk 15:16, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
- Thanks a lot for those very detailed suggestions. I will get them resolved ASAP and lat you know back here. YDAM TALK 16:27, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
- I've updated the article to try and address your suggestions. There's less short stubby paragraphs, "outwith" has been replaced with "outside of". Wharfs has been spun out to the history of dundee article. The transport and education sections have now been expanded. I couldn't really find any context for the sister city's section but I have moved it back under the politics and government section to try and make some. We could always drop it completly if you really feel it won't pass WP:FAC with it. YDAM TALK 19:31, 21 September 2006 (UTC)
- Truly excellent, excellent work. Now the lead and perhaps the geography section just need some more context. Prioritize the first few sentences in the lead to be the most important overview things about the city. The best way to do that is to give us a little more context, particularly of where it is at. Currently we don't know where in Scotland it is unless we already know where the river Lay is. I reallize the map is there, but it should tell simply in the text also something like "it is near the coast of ____ on the east side of Scotland". The image is nice, but it should be made clear what landmass it is representing and the surrounding bodies of water and other land should be labeled. To give better context on the size for those that don't already know the subject, ideally also you could reword the phrase referring to the 4th largest city by fitting in the population, otherwise unless we know the approximate sizes of all the top cities in Scotland the fourth largest doesn't tell us much. Finally add just a bit more to the first paragraph in the demographics or try to fit it in more successfully, it's a bit of a jarring change from that short paragraph to the next section. Try for improved narative arc there, making the section cohesive. I may not be able to respond here very soon, so if you really feel you've implemented these well, and really want to get this to FAC soon, it will have a great chance of passing with these fixes. Or if you'd like to wait for more input feel free of course. Keep up the good work. - Taxman Talk 19:34, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
- Have implemented most of your suggestions (will have to get in touch with somebody who does map to sort out that bit) I'm not really in a ruch to get it through FAC. Would rather get it right than rush it. Give us a shout if you think it's ok. Oh and thanks for the compliments. YDAM TALK 01:40, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
- I took a look at how other cities did their maps and saw they used captions so I used that to give the map more context without making the map look cluttered. Hope that's sufficient. Is there anything the article needs doing before FAC YDAM TALK 16:27, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
- Have implemented most of your suggestions (will have to get in touch with somebody who does map to sort out that bit) I'm not really in a ruch to get it through FAC. Would rather get it right than rush it. Give us a shout if you think it's ok. Oh and thanks for the compliments. YDAM TALK 01:40, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
- Truly excellent, excellent work. Now the lead and perhaps the geography section just need some more context. Prioritize the first few sentences in the lead to be the most important overview things about the city. The best way to do that is to give us a little more context, particularly of where it is at. Currently we don't know where in Scotland it is unless we already know where the river Lay is. I reallize the map is there, but it should tell simply in the text also something like "it is near the coast of ____ on the east side of Scotland". The image is nice, but it should be made clear what landmass it is representing and the surrounding bodies of water and other land should be labeled. To give better context on the size for those that don't already know the subject, ideally also you could reword the phrase referring to the 4th largest city by fitting in the population, otherwise unless we know the approximate sizes of all the top cities in Scotland the fourth largest doesn't tell us much. Finally add just a bit more to the first paragraph in the demographics or try to fit it in more successfully, it's a bit of a jarring change from that short paragraph to the next section. Try for improved narative arc there, making the section cohesive. I may not be able to respond here very soon, so if you really feel you've implemented these well, and really want to get this to FAC soon, it will have a great chance of passing with these fixes. Or if you'd like to wait for more input feel free of course. Keep up the good work. - Taxman Talk 19:34, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
- I'm just saying, I don't think many cities so small have that many named after them. There may be something there. But since you've responded so quickly, I've searched for more of what separates this article from featured standard. 1) The twin cities section needs similar treatment to the list of people. If it's not important enough to have some cited prose analysis of the international relations and whether the twin city status actually amounts to anything, it's probably not important enough to be it's own section, and possibly not important enough to be covered at all. 2) Too many short paragraphs cause choppy flow and highlight areas that either need to be expanded, merged with related material, or removed. 3) The word outwith appears to be classic scottish, but arcane enough that most would not know what it means. If you really feel it's valuable to include, figure out a way to define it in context so that it doesn't require looking up so that the sentence is accessible. It looked like a grammar error to me before looking it up. 3) The Wharfs section seems out of place and not important enough to justify it's own subsection. Merge it into wherever is appropriate, either economy or history depending on its current importance. 4) The transport section should probably be replaced by a discussion of the infrastructure in general. 5) The education section needs to discuss the general quality of the school systems by national and international standards. In relation to that, perhaps there is too much coverage of individual prominent schools. 6) Look to other FAs on cities for ideas of the balance of coverage in them. The most useful would probably be Ann Arbor a city of similar size, though its lead is now too short and it's sister cities bit has no context either. If you want my consideration of whether it looks like all that's done and this is ready for FAC, let me know here and I'll have another look. - Taxman Talk 15:16, 20 September 2006 (UTC)