Wikipedia:Peer review/Derry City F.C./archive1

Derry City F.C.

I'm hoping to raise the status of this article to 'featured article' status and have noted that having the article peer-reviewed before trying to attain such status seems to be the preferred route to take, so help, contributions or comments on how that may be achieved would be very much appreciated. I have spent some time including information I view to be important to the development of the article, as well as referencing as much of the article to electronic sources as I can. Meanwhile, I have also been maintaining it in order to keep it up-to-date. Having looked at the criteria set down for 'featured article' status, I feel the article comes quite close to passing but would like to know are there any furter developments required, and if so, what might they be? Danny Invincible^Talk|Edits 01:08, 20 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

User:IvoShandor

A few notes:

Make sure the lead conforms with all standards and guidelines at WP:LEDE.
The history section is an incredibly daunting mass of text. Consider condensing it significantly into more of a summary of the club's history, leave the more detailed information to the main article.
That seems like an awful lot of footer templates.
Your references will need to be properly formatted, see WP:CITE, WP:CITET (even if you opt not to use the templates they will give you a good idea of what info to include in your citations.
A better diversity of sources surely wouldn't hurt your FA chances.
See WP:TRIV, Trivia section should go.
The address and contact information is unencyclopedic, it should go as well.
All of the lists and tables sections are overkill, IMO, they can be merged/changed appropriately and the main articles be referenced. It is far too detailed for an article about the team.
The Supporters section looks mostly like original research, see WP:OR, either find citations or trim the fat.
You're not going to want to have any external links in the body of the text.

That's all I have for now and apt to keep you busy for a minute anyhow. I would suggest considering my suggestion as FAC is a tough place, to the benefit of the project, of course. IvoShandor 10:52, 20 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Oldelpaso

As the merge tag currently topping it would suggest, some of the material in the stadium section should be moved to Brandywell Stadium. The section should provide a brief overview, see Wikipedia:Summary style.
Remove the Other non-playing staff section. The likes of the Logistics Manager and kit man are excessive detail.
The colours and crest section describes a change of colours, but does not say what the original colours were.
What was the crest before 1997? The speculation about reason for the change of crest is original research and should be removed.
Plans of Derry's to purchase a pitch ran aground using "ran aground" makes it sound as though seafaring was involved.
Agree with IvoShandor's comment about the supporters section, citations are needed for the claims made.
City Cup links to an Australian rugby league competition.
A few run-on sentences need breaking up e.g. Steaua Bucureşti beat Derry 5-1 on aggregate in the club's first ever European outing in the Cup Winners Cup the following year but the club made up for it by winning the 1964-65 Irish League season and going on to become the first Irish League team to win a European tie over two legs by beating FK Lyn when, after losing 5-3 in Oslo, they won 8-6 on aggregate during the subsequent season.
The anecdote about Carlos Puyol is not supported by the reference.
Days later, on 12 December 2006, it was announced that Derry City had not only been accepted into the new-look FAI Premiership for the 2007 season, but had scored the highest number of points between those teams accepted - 830 - for on-field and off-field criteria determined by the FAI's Independent Assessment Group. It is unclear what this means, or what the significance is. I assume membership of the FAI Premiership is dependent on a point score determined by the FAI, but that is from reading between the lines.

Hope this helps. Oldelpaso 13:36, 22 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The Rambling Man

Hey, first off, well done on a huge and detailed article. So, previous comments notwithstanding, my opinions on getting the article to featured status:

WP:LEAD needs to be taken into account, two or maybe three paragraphs - see Arsenal F.C. for some tips on FA-style leads.
"...reasons associated with..." isn't particularly encyclopaedic. Precisely why?
Avoid overwikilinking - Northern Ireland is linked twice in the same paragraph in the lead.
My usual comment on recentism - the history section has five short paragraphs to get to the mid-80s and then seven mid to long paragraphs to get to today. Aim to even this out.
Heed WP:DASH for your seasons, i.e. 1994–95 rather than 1994-95.
Cite, cite, cite. For each claim of a win, draw, loss etc, I'd expect to see a citation, using the {{Cite web}} or {{Cite book}} templates.
Not keen on the list of years Derry won the league cup, I'd summarise it as the Honours section will go into this sort of detail.
"...financial nightmare...", "...final nail in the coffin...", "...fill the void..." etc. distinctly unencyclopaedic, perhaps neutralise.
Zero citations in the Colours & Crest section plus some WP:OR with the "...it is likely that the club simply wished to develop a fresh, contemporary image with a minimalist design...".
Do something about the merge notice, one way or the other. I'd prefer to see a section here about the Stadium with a main article wikilinked to.
Stadium section has too much in it, the recent developments should be summarised with the majority of detail in the sub-page. Plus, lots of citations would be required as well.
Supporters section has considerable original research. If you state something here as fact, or even opinion, you'd need a reliable source to cite it.
Images - I'd make them a shade smaller, especially the supporters one as it clashes with the blockquote you have.

Anyway, that's my opinion, nothing more! Good luck with getting the article up to FA. If you'd like any help or more discussion, just drop me a line. All the best The Rambling Man 15:50, 22 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks all for the advice. I'll work on the suggestions whenever I get the time and then we'll see about where to take it from there. Cheers. Danny Invincible^Talk|Edits 19:17, 23 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I've done quite a bit of work on this and think I have adequately cited most of the information. Maybe some more is required? I also realise I may still have to amend the format of the references.

I have read over the history section a few times and I feel that most of what is included there is vital in giving a proper overview of a club which has had a very long and complicated history - a history not just relating to matters on the field, but a socio-cultural and political one that developed off the field and extends beyond the realm of pure football. Would splitting the section into sub-sections be a good idea? If it really needs to be cut down dramatically, I suppose I'll have to find some way of doing it.

Anyhow, the stadium section has been cut down in wording, while I have developed the colours and crests sections. I have also amended all season dashes in the article. Most of the other smaller matters have been dealt with, I think. Also, I've removed some of the footer templates, the trivia section, the contact information and the section for back-room staff. Just another thing: the sub-articles are full of further information on the club; is there any content within those articles that might be essential to the club article? Are there any other major points to address? Cheers. Danny Invincible^Talk|Edits 05:45, 27 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

In terms of referencing and structure, everything looks sound. The remaining issues are prose related. See User:Tony1/How to satisfy Criterion 1a for some useful advice in this regard. Using the Colours section as an example:

Specifically, the colour-change should be attributed to Billy Gillespie - it either is attributed to him or it isn't. It seems slightly off-topic to describe his Sheffield United career in so much detail later in the paragraph.
The amber and black scheme was not as successful for Derry City as it had been for Wolverhampton Wanderers and a re-introduction of the "candystripes" for the 1962–63 season saw the fortunes of the club improve as Derry entered their most successful spell in the Irish League. - Makes it sound as though the change in colours was directly responsible for the successful period.
Jerseys over the years, although in keeping with the red and white tradition, have varied slightly in the sense that certain seasons saw Derry wear thinner stripes while others saw thicker or stripes with varying thicknesses being worn by the players on the field. - a somewhat verbose way of saying "The thickness of the stripes sometimes varies".
Derry now wear white socks when sporting their full home rig - is rig a regional term? I've never heard it used to describe football kit before. Oldelpaso 14:12, 29 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not sure about the use of the term 'rig'. According to Dictionary.com it can mean 'gear' or 'outfit' and is associated with the phrase 'to rig out/up' - meaning to get set up (i.e. put the kit on). I thought it was commonly used, but I'll change that anyway, and work on the other advice. Some commentators and psychologists have alleged that teams wearing red are generally more successful than others. ;) Still, I see your point. Danny Invincible^Talk|Edits 14:38, 29 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]