Wikipedia:Peer review/Bob Marshall (wilderness activist)/archive1

Bob Marshall (wilderness activist)

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This just recently became a Good Article and has been copy-edited several times by different users; all comments can be found on the article's talk page. I'm considering bringing this to FAC at some point, but I'm in no rush to do so. :) Feedback in regards to prose and comprehensiveness would be much appreciated, as would the usual MOS issues. So far I haven't been able to attain, through emailing and begging, a better picture of Marshall. There is only one authoritative biography dedicated to Marshall (Glover's 1986 book), and all other sources cite said bio, which is why the refs may heavily rely on one source. There are few other places I can tap for additional sources, however, so I hope it suffices. Thanks for any and all comments! María (habla conmigo) 14:32, 7 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from The Rambling Man (talk · contribs)

"...writer and wilderness activist and explorer" one too many "and"s?

It's a little confusing, but it's supposed to denote "writer and wilderness activist AND wilderness explorer". Does that make sense?

Perhaps "was an American forester and writer, as well as a wilderness activist and explorer"? I am reviewing below, just butting in here Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 03:25, 11 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Sure, that works! Changed.

"Ph.D " - better to talk doctorates and link.

Changed to [[Doctor of Philosophy|Ph.D.]].

"devoted considerable energy" bit POV - spent time, or something more neutral?

Made much simpler now: "Marshall defined wilderness as a social as well as environmental ideal."

"two important public posts" - possibly significant, important is POV again.

Changed to "significant", if that will suffice.

"Florence Marshall (d. 1916)" is her death date significant?

Removed for now; I can't find anything about Marshall's reaction to his mother's death and it doesn't seem to have had a large effect on him like the death of his father did.

"he soon grew to love the high country " no citation immediately obvious for this, it's very peacock-ish.

Agreed, removed that bit entirely.

Check your image captions. If they're fragments (i.e. incomplete sentences), no full stops please.

Fixed.

"By 1925 he had received a Master's degree in forestry from Harvard University." no citation.

~~Ack, will find.~~ Added.

"4.8 million acres" convert to metric for our European friends.
"33-mile" ditto et seq...

Think I got them all; I used the conversion template, which I've just discovered. :)

That's my first take. Let me know if I can help further. The Rambling Man (talk) 17:32, 10 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks so much, Rambling Man! This helps greatly. María (habla conmigo) 18:16, 10 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Ruhrfisch comments: As promised, here I am. I had one idea above, here are some more suggestions to make an article that is already quite good (hopefully) even better.

As long as the article is, I think WP:LEAD suggests it should be three paragraphs. This quote might be good in the lead too: Robert Marshall was personally responsible for the preservation of more wilderness than any individual in history.[37]

Okay, I've worked it into a three-part lead and added a paraphrased version of the quote you suggested.

I happen to know what a 46er is (not that I am one, sadly) - could a bit more context be provided, perhaps visiting the Adirondack Mountains numerous times [to hike and climb], and becoming one of the first Adirondack Forty-Sixers.?

That would be so cool if you were! "to hike and climb" is now added and it does make it a lot clearer, I agree.

User:Daniel Case is on his way to being one (if not already) and may be a good person to ask to look at this as he is quite familiar with the Adirondacks. Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 19:16, 11 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Great suggestion, thanks! I've messaged him.

A bit confusing here: Louis Marshall was also active in the Syracuse Jewish community, cofounder of the American Jewish Committee[5] and a prominent figure in the city;... which city is meant - NYC or Syracuse?

NYC, but as it's repetitive, I've just removed everything after AJC.

Can you give dates for Bob Marshall attended Felix Adler's Ethical Culture School in New York City. to make it clear this not a grade school, but a high school?

I can't find the date he began yet (need to get at my books). For now I added that he attended until 1919.

Even that provides context and is fine if you can't find a start date Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 19:16, 11 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Problem sentence - fix or break in two: After graduating from the Ethical Culture School in 1919 and spending a year at Columbia University, Marshall transferred to the New York State College of Forestry in Syracuse, which his father had helped found and [which was?] located in the foothills of the Adirondacks.

Now reads: "After graduating from the Ethical Culture School, Marshall spent a year at Columbia University. In 1920 he then transferred to the New York State College of Forestry in Syracuse, which his father had helped found.

Unclear: It was here that Marshall became interested in the unsafe conditions for many working Americans, and [this was?] the origin of his liberal and socialist philosophies.[30] Do you mean here he became interested in the origin of his philosophies (I doubt it).

Added "this was", as your doubt was correct.

Perhaps a little more detail here - when did he enter the Ph.D. program? WHy did he stop working for the federal govt in 1928? (mentioned earlier, repeat here?) All we get is Marshall was 28 years old and less than a year away from completing a Ph.D. in plant physiology at Johns Hopkins University... How did he start his Ph.D.? I would also start the sentence with the year to provide context In 1929, Marshall was 28 years old and less than a year away from completing a Ph.D. in plant physiology at Johns Hopkins University..

Hard to explain, really; his family had the money and he wanted the degree just sounds glib. I attribute it to his restless soul, but I'm already too POV on this guy as it is. :) For now I've added the "In 1929" intro like you suggested, but will work on finding reasons for Marshall's flightiness.

If it is not in the source(s), it is not in the sources. I just thought since he seems to have been a journal keeping guy maybe there was a "I must leave my federal job to learn the inner workings of plant phyiology - only then and with a Ph.D. can I truly be happy!" passage quoted somewhere ;-) Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 19:16, 11 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

If only. The biographer (Glover) seemingly enjoys reveling in Marshall's fast paced life and his "fly by the seat of his pants" attitude and so isn't willing to explain it, even if he could. :)

I know it is grammatically correct but it sounds really awkward to say He also served as chairman of the Washington branch of the American Civil Liberties Union, of which he had learned from his father. Perhaps He had learned of the American Civil Liberties Union from his father and served as chairman of the Washington branch. ?

Much better, I agree; changed.

who signed the ..order, which created sixteen wilderness areas, was signed shortly after Marshall left office.[49]? Why did he leave office?

No idea as to who signed the order (will look later), but he left the office to join the National Forest Division, which is explained a couple sections down. Added "Marshall left office to join the Forest Service once more."

I thought maybe the President signed it - brush with greatness and all that Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 19:16, 11 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I can't seem to find who signed it, but I'm still looking.

I like the There is just one hope of repulsing... quote very much, but having it in the blue text box and in the "Forest Service and Alaska" section seems redundant

Aha! I knew it was in there somewhere. Removed it from the "Forest Service" section, thanks.

Seems obvious, but probably should have a ref for death and sudden death came as a shock and he was greatly mourned by friends and relatives.

Will add both.

Unclear what is meant by ...it inspired the establishment of the Gates of the Arctic National Park, the largest national park in the United States in the late 1970s. Is the establishemnt in the 1970s or is the date when it was the largest national park then or both?

I can't seem to find a ref to back this up at the moment, so for now I've just removed it.

I think it is fine to give the establishment date. The article here says it is now one of the largest US National parks, so that could be worked in too, just was not clear on the sentence as written then. Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 19:16, 11 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

This sounds odd The area encompasses a million acres (4,000 km²) and is one of the most preserved ecosystems in the world. "most preserved" makes it sound like it is full of formaldehyde or in a glass jar. How about "best preserved" or perhaps "most completley preserved"?

"best preserved" works nicely, thanks.

Very well done, hope the nit-picks help and let me know when this is at FAC. Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 03:56, 11 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks so much for your very helpful comments! María (habla conmigo) 13:57, 11 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

You are very welcome - let me know when it is at FAC. Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 19:16, 11 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Will do, thanks. :) María (habla conmigo) 13:47, 15 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]