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Aeneas Mackintosh

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This peer review discussion has been closed.
I've listed this article for peer review because it was my first attempt at a Wikipedia article, some months ago. I was so embarrassed that I gave it up, but since then I've picked up experience with other articles, and I've spent time on my original baby to see if it can be brought up to a good standard (it was so awful that nobody gave it even a start rating). I'd be pleased to have the widest range of positive critical comment, and a tough copyedit would be great.


Thanks, Brianboulton (talk) 23:15, 13 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]


Ruhrfisch comments: Overall quite well written and thorough article, which seems to me to be GA quality already and pretty close to FA. Here are some fairly nit-picky suggestions for improvement:

  • I think the dates would work better before the names of the expeditions: the 1907–09 Nimrod Expedition, and the 1914–17 Imperial Trans-Antarctic Expedition.
If I did this it would be out of line with every other expedition or explorer article that I've seen on wikipedia, so perhaps best left, for consistency.
OK, I did not know this was the style. Ruhrfisch ><>°° 18:31, 18 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, I've done one for Mount Mackintosh. I'm leaving Hayward redlinked for the moment because that might prod someone (even me, later) into developing a proper article rather than a stub.
  • Is there any chance of putting small numbers or labels on the satellite photo of McMurdo Sound? As it is, it is fairly hard to figure out what points are meant.
I don't know how to do this myself, but I'll ask around. I agree that this would improve the image.
This is now being done, in collaboration with User:Finetooth. Brianboulton (talk) 22:51, 18 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Now done. Brianboulton (talk) 00:09, 19 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Can dates be added to Early life to provide context - for example, when did his mother, Annie Mackintosh, suddenly returned to England...
Sources I've examined don't have this level of detail - only Kelly Tyler-Lewis mentions it at all. Don't know if any amount of digging will produce a precise date. Can surmise early 1890s - Mackintosh would have been 13 when he started at Bedford Modern - but it's guesswork, really.
OK, if it is not available, it is not available. Thanks for checking Ruhrfisch ><>°° 18:31, 18 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • I would also provide a one or two sentence intro to the Nimrod expedition to put that into context - see WP:PCR
Yes, good idea, I've done this now.
  • Perhaps identify the source of the quote in Thus began "one of the most ill-considered parts of the entire expedition".[12]
It is cited to Riffenburgh, p. 266, as part of a combined reference. Is that not sufficient? (In case it isn't I've extended the text)
That looks fine - given the later reputation section, I thought it might help to establish it was not a rival writing that. Ruhrfisch ><>°° 18:31, 18 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • References go after punctuation - see WP:CITE
I'll deal with these - there can't be many.
  • Who named Mt. Mackintosh and when did they do so?
I'll have to dig for this - such information is not readily available. The probability is that it was Shackleton, as naming geographical features was a perk of expedition leaders, and he would have done it around 1919. I'll try and establish this with more certainty.
  • Any chance of a better picture of Mackintosh himself?
Not on commons. I'll look around for any possibilities.
I found this Belgian website in Dutch (?) here which has two photos of him. Assume they are free becasue of age at this point. Ruhrfisch ><>°° 18:31, 18 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Blimey O'Reilly that was clever! The second photo is actually of Arnold Spencer-Smith, but the first would be great. But I've no idea how to get it into the article. Technical stuff like capturing images from outside commons is absolutely beyond me. Incidentally, I think the language is Flemish. Brianboulton

(talk) 18:59, 18 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I've got the photo, created an infobox, and also got a picture of Aurora! Brianboulton (talk) 18:32, 20 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Article could use a copyedit - I read for comprehension, but saw a few typos - periods before and after a ref, missing space, that sort of thing.
Yes, agree - I'll try and sort out the typos, but a fresh copyedit always benefits.

Hope this helps, you may also want to ask for another reviewer's views at WP:PRV Ruhrfisch ><>°° 00:55, 18 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I've covered some points, will get back to the others. Brianboulton (talk) 11:38, 18 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
All points now dealt with or in hand Brianboulton (talk) 17:18, 18 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Looks very good. Ruhrfisch ><>°° 18:31, 18 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Comments from Maralia (talk · contribs)

Don't sell yourself short - I have yet to see an article from you that requires a "tough" copyedit. Nonetheless, I have copyedited this just now. Only a couple of remaining issues for me:

Thank you for the edits & kind remarks. Brianboulton (talk) 09:42, 22 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Please introduce Riffenburgh in the text, for us plebeians :)
Text amended to deal with this.Brianboulton (talk) 09:42, 22 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Some of the Sources, particularly the non-book ones, need a review for formatting.
I can't see anything wrong with the book source formats. I'm looking at the others. Brianboulton (talk) 09:42, 22 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Transferred one on-line source to External links as I've found a book source for the information. I've reformatted the on-line sources. If hese aren't right perhaps a kind soul would adjust them or tell me what to do. Brianboulton (talk) 13:32, 22 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for another fascinating article on Antarctic exploration! Maralia (talk) 04:00, 22 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I tweaked the online sources to pipe the urls into the source titles for a nicer looking presentation. I did the same with the external links too. The external link to coolantarctica.com was described as 'SY Aurora history' but had only a general link to the website's main page; I 'improved' it by linking to the site's page on SY Aurora, but I find no mention of Mackintosh on that page. Could you review that link/site? It may not be a relevant site for external linking here, or perhaps I've linked to the wrong page. Maralia (talk) 15:21, 22 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The coolantarctica page "Ships of the Antarctic" doesn't mention Mackintosh by name, but refers to matters dealt with in this article, including the loss of the Aurora from its Cape Evans mooring. I think it's a useful link in that it adds a little to information in the article, but I wouldn't defend it to the death. Brianboulton (talk) 15:39, 22 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Ealdgyth (talk · contribs)

  • Second sentence of the first paragraph of the lead seems rather run on ish to me.
Yes, you're right, so I've made it two
  • I took out a few stray periods and spaces.
  • I have to admit that there was a LOT on the Ross part that didn't seem that relevant to the subject of the article.
Well, Mackintosh was the leader of the party, with full responsibility for it. In each of the episodes described I have tried to emphasise his role - what he did, how others reacted to him, etc. There have to be a few background details to explain the narrative, but reading through, I couldn't find any obvious passages which were irrelevant to Mackintosh. It slightly worries me that you think there were a lot (capitalised!). What parts, particularly, seemed irrelevant to you?
That's the problem, I couldn't point to a thing, it was a "feel" thing more than any specific part. It may be because there is so little on his other life that the Ross stuff just feels like it overwhelms everything. This isnt' something I'd oppose on, by any means. Ealdgyth - Talk 22:08, 22 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • I take it that there is little known of his life beyond the polar expeditions? When exactly did he become chief?
As far as I can tell, he didn't. The source says he was descended from the ancient line of chieftains of Clan Chattan, and had been named to inherit the title of 31st chief. I assume that he died before inheriting. I did look up the clan history, but could find no mention of him. And yes, little of his life is known beyond his polar involvements.

I didn't do an in depth copyedit, but it looks pretty good. Sources are good, as is usual. 16:48, 22 April 2008 (UTC) Well thank for reading it. I hope we can clear up the "irrelevant" bits. Brianboulton (talk) 21:58, 22 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I looked it over again tonight. It still shows that there is a lack of information about his life away from the ice, but it doesn't have near as much of that unquantifiable "feel" I was getting before. As always, it's a great piece. Although, you say in one caption that there were four survivors ... shouldn't the poor dogs count too? (grins) Ealdgyth - Talk 23:47, 29 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Good idea re. the dogs - I've edited the caption. For more news of these dogs, see the Aftermath section of Ross Sea party article. I'm sorry I can't do much with the void concerning Mack's non-ice life - the information just isn't there in the available sources. He simply wasn't "glamorous" enough to attract biographers prepared to do in-depth research into the minutae of his non-exploring life. Brianboulton (talk) 10:09, 30 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
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