Wikipedia:Featured picture candidates/delist/B-25 Mitchell Production
Voting period is over. Please don't add any new votes. Voting period ends on 9 Mar 2014 at 18:06:16 (UTC)
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- Reason
- The proposed replacement is the version that's being used on Wikipedia articles; it is of significantly superior resolution, quality, and has dust and scratches removed.
- Articles this image appears in
- none for image proposed for delisting; for proposed replacement, North American B-25 Mitchell and zinc chromate
- Previous nomination/s
- Wikipedia:Featured picture candidates/B25-mitchell-assembly.jpg
- Nominator
- dllu (t,c)
- Delist and replace — dllu (t,c) 18:06, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
- I support Adam Cuerden's version. dllu (t,c) 18:07, 6 March 2014 (UTC)
- Note to closer: ALT2. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:51, 6 March 2014 (UTC)
- Comment it's been downsampled, and there's still some highly noticeable scratches (check the lower left hand corner). I might have a go at this. Adam Cuerden (talk) 01:27, 1 March 2014 (UTC)
- Delist, support replacement with replacement #2 only. Adam Cuerden (talk) 13:45, 1 March 2014 (UTC)
- I think yours is still too yellow, Adam Cuerden. Look at how yellow the white in the American flag is in your restoration, compared to the other replacement candidate. I get that the floors might be yellow from this process, but not the whole photograph. Sᴠᴇɴ Mᴀɴɢᴜᴀʀᴅ Wha? 21:45, 1 March 2014 (UTC)
- @Sven Manguard: If you look,you'll see you can see the lights through the fabric. This means it's somewaht trasparent, and will partially take on the colour of what's behind it. In addition, indoor flags mounted from roofs tend not to be taken down and washed all the time. I would expect them to not quite be white. However, I agree it was still a little yellow, so I've adjusted it. Adam Cuerden (talk) 03:23, 2 March 2014 (UTC)
- I can't support your restoration - it's too yellow. It may well be that all your coloring is right, but if that's the case I'd never support this as an FP, because the composition itself is too yellow. It also might be that the coloring in the alternate is right - it certainly looks more in line with my preconceptions - but right now I'm not going to support that one either. Delist and do not replace is where I'm stuck now. Sᴠᴇɴ Mᴀɴɢᴜᴀʀᴅ Wha? 03:29, 2 March 2014 (UTC)
- @Sven Manguard: You realise this is from 1942, right? Perfect colour fidelity didn't exist back then, and film yellows over time. Between those, one must be careful, lest one creates something superficially acceptable that, in fact, has no resemblence to reality. When you're getting red spots and green shadows, as in the first proposed replacement, you've substituted an inherent problem with the medium (that people expect to see) for something that looks superfically acceptable, while, in fact, being far more misleading. I've asked Crisco to have a go; maybe he'll get something. Adam Cuerden (talk) 05:42, 2 March 2014 (UTC)
- It's a visually compelling image, but if we can't get one that is acceptable color-wise, we are under no obligation to feature the least disagreeable version available. I feel like that is what you are asking for in this case. It's unfortunate that the image is too yellow, but I'm not going to ignore the image's problems for the sake of a desirable outcome. Sᴠᴇɴ Mᴀɴɢᴜᴀʀᴅ Wha? 06:25, 2 March 2014 (UTC)
- I don't know how everyone else would feel about this, but an acceptable image colour-wise for me is one which retains its fidelity to the original, rather than one which conforms to the 'modern aesthetic' if we can call it that. The 1st replacement here looks to me like someone loaded the wrong film (probably because of the colour shifts Adam mentioned in the shadows); the second one has a slight yellow cast, but to use Sven's words, doesn't create problems for the sake of a desirable outcome like the first.
- The standard image from this period is black and white. We don't oppose that because they have zero colour fidelity. Adam Cuerden (talk) 07:03, 2 March 2014 (UTC)
- I am currently uploading a warmth-adjusted image over ALT2 (revert if you don't like it, Adam, so I can upload separately). I've knocked down the yellows a little bit, eyeballing the white of the American flag. Not sure when it will be finished uploading, as this is an Indonesian connection. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 08:02, 2 March 2014 (UTC)
- That looks pretty good. Adam Cuerden (talk) 08:32, 2 March 2014 (UTC)
- I am currently uploading a warmth-adjusted image over ALT2 (revert if you don't like it, Adam, so I can upload separately). I've knocked down the yellows a little bit, eyeballing the white of the American flag. Not sure when it will be finished uploading, as this is an Indonesian connection. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 08:02, 2 March 2014 (UTC)
- The standard image from this period is black and white. We don't oppose that because they have zero colour fidelity. Adam Cuerden (talk) 07:03, 2 March 2014 (UTC)
- I don't know how everyone else would feel about this, but an acceptable image colour-wise for me is one which retains its fidelity to the original, rather than one which conforms to the 'modern aesthetic' if we can call it that. The 1st replacement here looks to me like someone loaded the wrong film (probably because of the colour shifts Adam mentioned in the shadows); the second one has a slight yellow cast, but to use Sven's words, doesn't create problems for the sake of a desirable outcome like the first.
- It's a visually compelling image, but if we can't get one that is acceptable color-wise, we are under no obligation to feature the least disagreeable version available. I feel like that is what you are asking for in this case. It's unfortunate that the image is too yellow, but I'm not going to ignore the image's problems for the sake of a desirable outcome. Sᴠᴇɴ Mᴀɴɢᴜᴀʀᴅ Wha? 06:25, 2 March 2014 (UTC)
- @Sven Manguard: You realise this is from 1942, right? Perfect colour fidelity didn't exist back then, and film yellows over time. Between those, one must be careful, lest one creates something superficially acceptable that, in fact, has no resemblence to reality. When you're getting red spots and green shadows, as in the first proposed replacement, you've substituted an inherent problem with the medium (that people expect to see) for something that looks superfically acceptable, while, in fact, being far more misleading. I've asked Crisco to have a go; maybe he'll get something. Adam Cuerden (talk) 05:42, 2 March 2014 (UTC)
- I can't support your restoration - it's too yellow. It may well be that all your coloring is right, but if that's the case I'd never support this as an FP, because the composition itself is too yellow. It also might be that the coloring in the alternate is right - it certainly looks more in line with my preconceptions - but right now I'm not going to support that one either. Delist and do not replace is where I'm stuck now. Sᴠᴇɴ Mᴀɴɢᴜᴀʀᴅ Wha? 03:29, 2 March 2014 (UTC)
- @Sven Manguard: If you look,you'll see you can see the lights through the fabric. This means it's somewaht trasparent, and will partially take on the colour of what's behind it. In addition, indoor flags mounted from roofs tend not to be taken down and washed all the time. I would expect them to not quite be white. However, I agree it was still a little yellow, so I've adjusted it. Adam Cuerden (talk) 03:23, 2 March 2014 (UTC)
- I think yours is still too yellow, Adam Cuerden. Look at how yellow the white in the American flag is in your restoration, compared to the other replacement candidate. I get that the floors might be yellow from this process, but not the whole photograph. Sᴠᴇɴ Mᴀɴɢᴜᴀʀᴅ Wha? 21:45, 1 March 2014 (UTC)
- Just to be clear on the issues with ALT1:
Adam Cuerden (talk) 10:34, 2 March 2014 (UTC) - D&R with ALT2. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 09:04, 2 March 2014 (UTC)
- D&R with ALT2. Kevin Rutherford (talk) 02:30, 5 March 2014 (UTC)
- D&R with ALT2. Herald talk with me 14:08, 8 March 2014 (UTC)
Replaced with File:Alfred T. Palmer - Assembling the North American B-25 Mitchell at Kansas City, Kansas (USA).jpg --Armbrust The Homunculus 18:06, 9 March 2014 (UTC)