Wikipedia:Featured picture candidates/September 11 Attacks Memorial
Appearance
- Reason
- This is a bit of a risky nomination for me as the wow-factor is admittedly low and it isn't an oversized panorama ;-). It isn't a large scale, visually-impressive memorial like the Tribute in Light but IMO it documents a wide variety of individuals' and communities' emotional responses to the attacks well and I think it is a photo that does it in a more personal and intimate way. While the individual tiles are undeniably non-NPOV, I don't think this is an issue as the image itself simply documents these views and doesn't attempt to push them on the viewer. I know it looks fairly soft in the thumbnail, but the detail is there at 100%. Also, FYI, this image shows the full extent of the memorial (it extends all the way around the fence), and while I think both images complement each other and are linked to each other on the image pages, I feel this nominated image has the better composition and more intimate feel.
- Articles this image appears in
- Memorials and services for the September 11 attacks
- Creator
- User:Diliff
- Support as nominator --Diliff | (Talk) (Contribs) 18:07, 28 February 2009 (UTC)
Previous !votes that are no longer valid. Please Re!vote below if you voted before! | |||
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. | |||
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Kept on Commons. Unsuspending so we can appraise this on photographic quality. MER-C 07:53, 31 March 2009 (UTC)
- How should we go about this, then? The majority of the opposition was based on the assumption that it was non-free, but striking them out seems a bit drastic... Diliff | (Talk) (Contribs) 11:10, 31 March 2009 (UTC)
- Let's see what happens. Relisting should give the opposers an opportunity to update their reviews, but if they don't they won't be considered. MER-C 12:30, 31 March 2009 (UTC)
- Oppose. It's not valid to call photographs of other people's artwork completely your own work. I would support deletion of the image, but I do not think it is feature worthy for that reason. Further, I don't consider it particularly striking. J Milburn (talk) 16:25, 31 March 2009 (UTC)
- I'm not claiming the artwork as my own work. I'm only claiming that I took the photo of the collage, which is completely different. It's pretty clear this is a collaboration and not something I created myself. I'd have been more than happy to give credit to the individuals who created the tiles, but there were no credits on the fence. You seem to be taking a moral line of reasoning rather than a legal one when you say you'd support deletion of it (you missed the boat there, anyway). If you were to take a moral standpoint on photographing works of art, then does that mean you'd like to see all our photos of artwork deleted too? I have certainly don't intend to break the law in taking documenting the world around us, but this isn't about crediting me - it's about showcasing important objects/scenes on the encyclopaedia... Deleting the image won't help us out there at all. But okay, if you don't find it striking... Diliff | (Talk) (Contribs) 17:01, 31 March 2009 (UTC)
- I'm sorry, that was actually a typing error. I meant I wouldn't. Basically, from a legal standpoint, I'm sure we're alright (hence not deleting) but, from a philosophical standpoint, I don't think this is a reflection of our best work in terms of freedom. No offence was meant- it's an excellent documentary photograph, but I don't think it's really FP material. J Milburn (talk) 11:41, 5 April 2009 (UTC)
- I'm not claiming the artwork as my own work. I'm only claiming that I took the photo of the collage, which is completely different. It's pretty clear this is a collaboration and not something I created myself. I'd have been more than happy to give credit to the individuals who created the tiles, but there were no credits on the fence. You seem to be taking a moral line of reasoning rather than a legal one when you say you'd support deletion of it (you missed the boat there, anyway). If you were to take a moral standpoint on photographing works of art, then does that mean you'd like to see all our photos of artwork deleted too? I have certainly don't intend to break the law in taking documenting the world around us, but this isn't about crediting me - it's about showcasing important objects/scenes on the encyclopaedia... Deleting the image won't help us out there at all. But okay, if you don't find it striking... Diliff | (Talk) (Contribs) 17:01, 31 March 2009 (UTC)
- Strong Support per my original vote(s) on the matter. ~ ωαdεstεr16«talkstalk» 05:18, 10 April 2009 (UTC)
- Also, I've informed all previous voters to come back and !vote again. ~ ωαdεstεr16«talkstalk» 05:24, 10 April 2009 (UTC)
- Support per my original vote. It's an attractive and useful image.--ragesoss (talk) 05:28, 10 April 2009 (UTC)
- Support also per original !vote. Encyclopedic illustration of how people reacted during that time. Fletcher (talk) 11:59, 10 April 2009 (UTC)
- Oppose my old rationale still stands, but I don't fully agree with it any more. I'll posit this new one: this is an important image to have on Wikipedia. It holds personal significance to many people. The problem is that it doesn't hold that significance for a lot of people. We could find a photo like this for every disaster occurring in the US. It is a very ordinary photo. PS, why was it re-nominated? thank you to ωαdεstεr16«talkstalk» for letting me know i needed to vote again. ~ The Talking Sock talk contribs 13:13, 10 April 2009 (UTC)
- It was renominated because the main reasons for opposition at the time were related to the licensing. This issue was resolved after the nomination had expired, so the nomination was re-started. I don't think it matters that it doesn't represent or hold significance a lot of people. Wikipedia isn't here to please everyone. I mean, do all of our FPs hold significance for most people? Probably not. Not everyone is particularly interested in birds, insects, or architecture for example. That doesn't mean we shouldn't feature pictures of them if they illustrate an article well. Diliff | (Talk) (Contribs) 13:44, 10 April 2009 (UTC)
- I think that theory would limit us only to images of UNESCO World Heritage Sites... ~ ωαdεstεr16«talkstalk» 14:38, 10 April 2009 (UTC)
- Weak oppose - Same as before. Background is distracting, would look better with a shallower DOF, IMO. Kaldari (talk) 15:05, 10 April 2009 (UTC)
- More of an issue in the thumbnail than when viewed at 100%, but fair enough. It was taken with the widest aperture available to me (f/4) at the time. Diliff | (Talk) (Contribs) 15:12, 10 April 2009 (UTC)
- Support Per my orginal vote. — Jake Wartenberg 15:42, 10 April 2009 (UTC)
- Oppose, as before. Even if Commons didn't remove it as a copyvio, it still is one. It also retains systemic bias issues. Stifle (talk) 21:17, 10 April 2009 (UTC)
- It being a copyvio is only your opinion but it seems a pretty poor reason to oppose given it has already been discussed and resolved. The licensing/legal aspect is completely separate to this nomination. If you still have a problem with it, you should re-raise it on Commons. Also, it doesn't have systematic bias issues any more than the majority of our FPs are by virtue of the contributors being from western countries.. This was covered above. It documents an interesting and historic scene. If the scene is biased, so be it. Many scenes are. The solution to systematic bias is to encourage alternative POVs, not to reject the 'mainstream' POV. Diliff | (Talk) (Contribs) 21:42, 10 April 2009 (UTC)
- Support as before. SpencerT♦Nominate! 23:30, 10 April 2009 (UTC)
- Support for its EV. Makeemlighter (talk) 01:52, 13 April 2009 (UTC)
Promoted File:Sept 11 monument in NYC - August 2004.jpg MER-C 02:33, 15 April 2009 (UTC)