Wikipedia:Featured picture candidates/Mansu Hill Grand Monument

Kim Il-sung and Kim Jong-il statues at the Mansu Hill Grand Monument

Voting period is over. Please don't add any new votes. Voting period ends on 5 Jun 2015 at 00:46:58 (UTC)

**Original (nomination)** – (2014) – Famous statues in Pyongyang of North Korean founder Kim Il-sung and his son Kim Jong-il.

Reason: High quality image of an important monument in North Korea. I think that the people bowing to the statues adds to the EV in this case. There is another good image of these statues without any people, but I prefer this one.
Articles in which this image appears: Mansu Hill Grand Monument
FP category for this image: Not entirely sure, I supposed Wikipedia:Featured_pictures/Artwork/Sculpture, though I don't really think of these as works of art. Maybe Wikipedia:Featured_pictures/People/Political?
Creator: Bjørn Christian Tørrissen

Support as nominator – Blorgy555 (talk) 00:46, 26 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - Copyright wise, the statues are fine (there's FOP in N. Korea). It's a damned shame the quality isn't up to par. Lots of JPG artefacting and posterization. The composition itself is good. — Chris Woodrich (talk) 01:25, 26 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
- What about the other one I linked to in the Reason? I don't think it's as interesting a photo but it's still good. – Blorgy555 (talk) — Preceding undated comment added 02:01, 26 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  - It's technically a better image, but you're right that the composition is lacking a bit. — Chris Woodrich (talk) 05:44, 26 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Support I agree there's problems, but given North Korea allows so few people in, I think it's worth waiving this one through on rarity grounds. Adam Cuerden ^(talk) 19:42, 26 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Support – Per Adam. Astounding tableau – tells you all you need to know about DPRK. I like the perspective & stark context of the nominated shot better than the pic at right. Sca (talk) 14:23, 27 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
- Huh, Kim Jong-il's clothing changed... – Blorgy555 (talk) — Preceding undated comment added 17:14, 27 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  - "tells you all you need to know about DPRK." Though I can't exactly agree with this statement. – Blorgy555 (talk) — Preceding undated comment added 17:17, 27 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Meant somewhat tongue-in-cheek. Sca (talk) 21:10, 28 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Weak support - The rareness of this shot does give it some wiggle room, but I'm not convinced that nobody could bring a decent camera into the country. — Chris Woodrich (talk) 14:38, 27 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Support (Full disclosure: I took this photo.) Although I agree with the criticism regarding technical qualities, I'm quite happy with the photo. The restrictions on what kind of camera you can bring keeps softening up, but at the time I took this photo, I used the best camera I dared to bring, based on the rules at the time. Also, you're given very little time to set up your photo, and catching a group bowing to the leader is a matter of pure luck. You can't just wait around for another group to arrive. I also like that it's a small group, because that's the most realistic setting. There are a lot fewer visitors to these sites than most people imagine, except on special occasions. Also, while the other photo shown here is a good one, it shows how the site looked previously (pre-2013), while the nominated photo shows the current look of it. They changed the outfit of Kim Jung-il to the new anorak in 2013, because that's what he usually was wearing, apparently. uspn (talk) 19:51, 27 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, uspn. It's a great shot – almost iconic, to reuse an over-used word. Tells the story better than 1,000 words could. Sca (talk) 23:49, 27 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

We weren't allowed to go any closer to the statues than the bowing people you see in the photo, and only briefly. We were also not allowed to zoom in on the statues. One theory is that although the statues are claimed to be bronze, they are actually just bronze-coloured plastics. Supporting that theory is how quickly they were able to completely remodel/redress one of the statues in 2013. I suppose a good zoom-in on some parts of the statues might disclose that. I did not become aware of this theory until I returned home, and this was on just my second day in the country, so I was not feeling like "stealing" some full-zoom shots of the "seams" of the statue, but it would be interesting if someone else did! uspn (talk) 18:07, 28 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

USPN, I've got a question: what format were you saving your files as on the camera? Large/fine (not sure of the term used with the DSC-HX100V), or...? — Chris Woodrich (talk) 00:09, 28 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

It's a fairly basic camera, but I used the highest resolution available in Fine JPEG mode, which is as much as I can get out of it. It's got more zoom than actually is allowed to bring into North Korea, but I took the chance because the camera looks more "innocent" than a DSLR does. To be granted a tourist visa, you must declare that you are not a "professional photographer" and that you won't bring "professional equipment", but those terms aren't that closely defined. The exception is of course when North Korea specifically invites professionals to come. I think that very few of those who are invited are likely to donate their photos to the Commons, unfortunately. uspn (talk) 18:07, 28 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Dang... Oh well. — Chris Woodrich (talk)

Comment Which is the current statue? Compare the two pictures here and the one on the left (our right) has changed... gazhiley 10:24, 28 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

By golly, you and Blorgy555 are right – Kim Jong Il got a different coat some time in the intervening two years! (Guess it's more casual-looking, i.e. more proletarian?) Another reason to support this nom. Sca (talk) 14:03, 28 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The current statue is the one shown in the nominated photo. uspn (talk) 18:07, 28 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Support While the technical standards could be better, it seems unlikely that we'll get a higher-quality image any time soon and the very strong (but horrific) EV more than makes up for this. A slightly tighter crop might be worth considering. Nick-D (talk) 10:58, 29 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Support This picture tells so much about its subject in a dramatic way. SeoMac (talk) 17:40, 29 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Support Godhulii 1985 (talk) 08:52, 30 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
- Godhulii 1985 per the recent change to the guidlines of this page, can you please provide reason for your vote? Thanks gazhiley 09:54, 30 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  - There was no consensus to require such things, and the guidelines for support !votes haven't changed. — Chris Woodrich (talk) 10:50, 30 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Right – gazhiley, please see this. Sca (talk) 15:18, 30 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Meh, ok fair enough... Never noticed that being discussed, would have def given my support to change - I hate un-explained votes... Don't see the point in them personally... Opens the door wide to sock voting and false votes... But anyways, that's a conversation for another day... gazhiley 07:59, 1 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I support because it doesn't invite lots of argument (I'm lazy so I tend to follow the tide which doesn't invite lots of argument). But as you tagged me, so here are the reasons for my support: 1) Very rare pic with a free license so I consider one of wikipedia's best work 2) follow relevant req like size, clear in full screen 3) has significant encyclopedic value in the article in which it appears and 4) I like to see this in wikipedia homepage. Godhulii 1985 (talk) 18:27, 2 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Promoted File:Mansudae-Monument-Bow-2014.jpg --Armbrust ^{The Homunculus} 00:51, 5 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]