Wikipedia:Featured picture candidates/Khomeini's return
Voting period is over. Please don't add any new votes. Voting period ends on 10 Feb 2017 at 06:56:43 (UTC)
- Reason
- Besides having a high resloution, this famous "historical and unique" picture is an indication of a milestone in Iranian history. knomeini's returned from exile after 15 years and led the revolution of Iran. The emboldened main title reads: "Tomorrow morning at 9, meeting with Imam in Tehran." The other parts are mostly dealing with this event and describe what actions will be done tomorrow and how the population will be managed to avoid unexpected events. Small parts of the page is dedicated to the possibility of a Coup d'état.
- Articles in which this image appears
- Ruhollah Khomeini's return to Iran, Fajr decade, Ettela'at
- FP category for this image
- Wikipedia:Featured pictures/History/Others
- Creator
- Ettellaat Newspaper
- Support as nominator – Mhhossein talk 06:56, 31 January 2017 (UTC)
- Question: Are we sure this is even eligible? The PD-Iran template would apply to the photographs in the newspaper (as it's been >30 years since publication), but what does Iranian copyright law say about text? —howcheng {chat} 18:36, 31 January 2017 (UTC)
- @Howcheng: I checked the laws, same thing is correct for text. --Mhhossein talk 12:48, 1 February 2017 (UTC)
- Oppose - I don't see the EV of having a picture of a picture in a newspaper. Unless the article is about that very newspaper, it's not a very good source of visual information. Mattximus (talk) 21:08, 31 January 2017 (UTC)
- Mattximus: What do you mean by "a picture of a picture"? The whole page is the subject, not only one of the pictures. Of course there's an article about the paper. --Mhhossein talk 08:43, 1 February 2017 (UTC)
- I can find no mention of this newspaper in the article. And it's a scanned image of a printed image. Why is that the best choice for showing the event in question? In other words, what's so important about a newspaper reporting an event, instead of a picture of the event? Mattximus (talk) 12:04, 1 February 2017 (UTC)
- Mattximus: This page is showing the historic and important events of the Iranian revolution. There's no such collection recorded in history of Iran. It's showing how every thing was changing within those days. It does not have to be mentioned in the page dedicated to the paper itself. In other words
"[This picture] adds significant encyclopedic value to articles
Ruhollah Khomeini's return to Iran and Fajr decade" and"helps readers to understand
them. --Mhhossein talk 13:11, 1 February 2017 (UTC)- Actually it does for it to have EV. For example, why not have a picture of a newspaper for every major world event? Because the EV comes from the event itself, not the reporting of the event. Unless this newspaper specifically has any value beyond what it's reporting, then there is no EV. Mattximus (talk) 23:13, 1 February 2017 (UTC)
- Mattximus: This picture is unique, because only two papers were publishing at the time and among them this one satisfies the resolution criterion. Sorry, but it's a self-made argument and see the criteria page once again. It says
"A featured picture adds significant encyclopedic value to an article and helps readers to understand an article."
Pay attention to "an article." It never restricts us to a specific article. This is the meaning of "EV". If you were right, then we had to down grade many of the already promoted photos! For example, File:J accuse.jpg does not add significant encyclopedic value to L'Aurore where there's a passing unsourced mention to the image. While, the image is very valuable for articles Dreyfus affair and Émile Zola. --Mhhossein talk 13:13, 2 February 2017 (UTC) - However, I added the material related the this page of Ettellaat Newspaper. There it's mentioned how effective the news was. --Mhhossein talk 14:26, 2 February 2017 (UTC)
- I'm glad you brought up Zola! I've studied him at university, and read much of his work. This is a perfect example of EV. That newspaper article *itself* is actually the important historical document. I'll try to make if very clear: the EV lies in the item or event that the image is illustrating. In the J'accuse case, the subject IS the newspaper article. In your case, the subject is what the newspaper is reporting on, not the paper itself. Do you see how they are different? That's important and that's why I oppose this nomination. Mattximus (talk) 21:46, 2 February 2017 (UTC)
- Mattximus: Please answer by True or False; This historical and unique page of the paper does not add EV to historical events Fajr decade and Ruhollah Khomeini's return to Iran and it does not help the readers to understand them. --Mhhossein talk 22:10, 2 February 2017 (UTC)
- False, the newspaper reporting of an event does not lend EV, or at best, less EV than a colour photograph, to the events. It does not add or help the reader understand the event any better than even a low resolution image of the actual event. But do you understand my logic above using the Zola example? Mattximus (talk) 22:13, 2 February 2017 (UTC)
- I understand that. But that does not make my case ineligible. The series of events in Fajr decade can be best shown in this paper, other wise we need a series of photos. The matter is not just graphic or photo. The flow of events are most important here. Almost every thing was changing and the paper's showing that. I was surprised to see your "False". Anyway, thanks. --Mhhossein talk 22:32, 2 February 2017 (UTC)
- False, the newspaper reporting of an event does not lend EV, or at best, less EV than a colour photograph, to the events. It does not add or help the reader understand the event any better than even a low resolution image of the actual event. But do you understand my logic above using the Zola example? Mattximus (talk) 22:13, 2 February 2017 (UTC)
- Mattximus: Please answer by True or False; This historical and unique page of the paper does not add EV to historical events Fajr decade and Ruhollah Khomeini's return to Iran and it does not help the readers to understand them. --Mhhossein talk 22:10, 2 February 2017 (UTC)
- I'm glad you brought up Zola! I've studied him at university, and read much of his work. This is a perfect example of EV. That newspaper article *itself* is actually the important historical document. I'll try to make if very clear: the EV lies in the item or event that the image is illustrating. In the J'accuse case, the subject IS the newspaper article. In your case, the subject is what the newspaper is reporting on, not the paper itself. Do you see how they are different? That's important and that's why I oppose this nomination. Mattximus (talk) 21:46, 2 February 2017 (UTC)
- Mattximus: This picture is unique, because only two papers were publishing at the time and among them this one satisfies the resolution criterion. Sorry, but it's a self-made argument and see the criteria page once again. It says
- Actually it does for it to have EV. For example, why not have a picture of a newspaper for every major world event? Because the EV comes from the event itself, not the reporting of the event. Unless this newspaper specifically has any value beyond what it's reporting, then there is no EV. Mattximus (talk) 23:13, 1 February 2017 (UTC)
- Mattximus: This page is showing the historic and important events of the Iranian revolution. There's no such collection recorded in history of Iran. It's showing how every thing was changing within those days. It does not have to be mentioned in the page dedicated to the paper itself. In other words
- I can find no mention of this newspaper in the article. And it's a scanned image of a printed image. Why is that the best choice for showing the event in question? In other words, what's so important about a newspaper reporting an event, instead of a picture of the event? Mattximus (talk) 12:04, 1 February 2017 (UTC)
- Mattximus: What do you mean by "a picture of a picture"? The whole page is the subject, not only one of the pictures. Of course there's an article about the paper. --Mhhossein talk 08:43, 1 February 2017 (UTC)
- Oppose Per Mattximus – Jobas (talk) 01:55, 1 February 2017 (UTC)
- Support: Besides conforming to other criteria, Also the image adds encyclopedia value mentioned articles i.e Fajr decade and Ruhollah Khomeini's return to Iran.--m,sharaf (talk) 17:03, 4 February 2017 (UTC)
- Support: Per nom. It helps the readers to understand the mentioned articles better. I think, this is an indication of encyclopedic value. Mbazri (talk) 12:34, 8 February 2017 (UTC)
- Support: Per nomination. This is a unique paper. Adds 'EV' to the pages related to the Iranian Revolution. Lstfllw203 (talk) 18:44, 8 February 2017 (UTC)
- Oppose per Mattximus. Good for the article, but not FP worthy IMO. --Janke | Talk 06:56, 9 February 2017 (UTC)
- Janke: Could I know the reasoning behind that "but"? You already said the pic was "good for the article", apparently showing you are agreeing on 'EV' of the pic. --Mhhossein talk 13:19, 9 February 2017 (UTC)
- Support:This image can show the series of events in Fajr decade. Shobair2012 (talk) 17:04, 9 February 2017 (UTC)
Not Promoted --Armbrust The Homunculus 13:24, 10 February 2017 (UTC)