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Japanese Garden

[edit]
Original. Panoramic view from the Symbolic Mountain at the Japanese Garden in Cowra, NSW, showing many of the typical elements of a Japanese garden.
Reason
This is a pretty attractive and informative picture of a Japanese Garden. Taken on a lovely day, at the perfect time of year with the cherry blossom trees in full bloom, and with no pesky tourists spoiling the photo. It has stood the test of time, being unchallenged as the main image (in lower res versions) in three articles for almost a year, including the main Japanese Garden article.
Proposed caption
Panoramic view from the Symbolic Mountain at the Japanese Garden in Cowra, NSW, showing many of the typical elements of a Japanese garden. The Cowra garden is a kaiyū-shiki or strolling garden. The view takes in the gardens and the plains of the Cowra Shire across to the nearby mountains.
Articles this image appears in
Japanese garden
Cowra, New South Wales
Cowra Shire Council
Garden
Creator
jjron

Support Nice scene and colours. Also like the composition of this one better than for example this shot thanks to the framing of the eucalypt LHS --Fir0002 02:51, 9 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support. I really like the composition as well.--ragesoss 03:23, 9 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. Technically fine, but not particularly striking. Also I don't find it to be very Japanese, and I've seen Japanese gardens from Australian natives that seem a lot more Japanese than this. It's certainly nothing like the Japanese gardens I've seen in Japan. Perhaps the light and sense of space are reasons. I wish I could give more objective reasons. —Pengo 13:01, 9 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak oppose - It's a curious subject no doubt, but I'm afraid various things bother me. It's discernibly overexposed, the framing is not too good (the tree on the left-hand side just looks cut off) and the composition is nothing special, I daresay under par. And I'm finding everything rather distracting. -- Chris B • talk • contribs 16:47, 9 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - Looks a little oversaturated, like a magazine photo from the 70's. Still an FP though. Calibas 22:04, 9 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose - Ummm, what exactly does this illustrate? IMHO this is only some garden with a stone lantern thrown into the lake and labelled "Japanese garden". There is nothing that screams "Japanese" from this garden, the architecture, the main component visible from this pano, is absolutely not Japanese from the outside; most plants there aren't native to Japan and as far as I can see, there is only 1 sakura tree in full blossom in the centre; All three pictures at the end of the article put more emphasis on the Japanese parts more than this pano, but from this pano the garden look no different to any other well-maintained western public gardens: It tries to encompass too many things, like many public parks, and neglects the Japanese part that it's supposed to illustrate. I would support if it's for illustrating a public park, but not for Japanese gardens. --antilivedT | C | G 08:44, 10 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. It is a nice photo, and maybe even a good illustration of a (Western public garden-style) Japanese garden. It just seems wrong to have a photo of one in Australia rather than an authentic original from Japan. Perhaps the caption could clarify something about the tradition of having such gardens in public gardens in the West, because this just doesn't feel authentic to me. --Dhartung | Talk 09:27, 10 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    • Not to argue with genuine reasons for opposing, but perhaps I could recommend some of the opposers to take a couple of minutes to check the articles to understand the significance of these particular gardens and clarify some points. See especially Cowra Japanese Garden and The Cowra Breakout. These gardens were supported in their development by the Japanese Government both philosophically and financially, and designed and 'constructed' by a leading 'Japanese Garden' designer of the time (this was in the 1970s). And as the Japanese garden article says, one of the typical features is "A "borrowed landscape" from beyond the garden's confines", something I would have thought done pretty well here. --jjron 12:02, 10 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - per nom --Childzy ¤ Talk 12:43, 10 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. Garden, yes. Japanese, no. Doesn't adequately illustrate the article. — BRIAN0918 • 2007-09-10 14:54Z
  • Oppose Oversaturated, unsharp and not particularly encyclopedic. -Fcb981(talk:contribs) 19:42, 10 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Nevermind per Dhartung. This is a rather atypical Japanese garden in terms of a number of things, including size. I would consider changing my vote if the title of this photo were made specific to the Cowra Japanese Garden. Tokugawapants 06:07, 11 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    • Huh? The image name is Image:07. Japanese Garden Pano, Cowra, NSW, 22.09.2006.jpg, and it's clearly identified in the image caption everywhere it's used as being the Japanese Garden in Cowra - how much more specific do you want to get? --jjron 08:01, 11 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment This is interesting, because i recently saw a TV documentary about gardens especially Japaneses ones. I won't pretend i m an expert about gardening, but I can understand how this garden relates to Japaneses ones. The mix of raw stones, low bushes, and pond of water is definitely something you could see in a Japanese garden. However i find it disturbing that very few trees seem to be cut according to the Japanese way. Maybe we should need some additional input/research about Japanese gardens ? 83.204.192.214 09:54, 11 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Not much wrong technically, and "there are Japanese gardens around the world?" Interesting... --snowolfD4 ( talk / @ ) 12:03, 12 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support – Technically good. Sharp details and good balance of colours and contrast given the bright sky. What it lacks in an outright informative photo of a Japanese garden, it makes up in its composition. Also the photo appears in other articles too, so it's not like it has to be the perfect illustration of a Japanese garden. Centy – reply• contribs – 15:28, 12 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment. I hope that whoever is responsible for closing this nomination takes into consideration that the gardens were, as Jjron said, designed and built by a leading Japanese gardener, and that many of the opposers are likely not Japanese or Japanese garden experts and therefore might not have the expertise to determine such things... ;-) It would be a shame if the opposition sunk the nomination based on limited understanding. I don't claim to be an expert either but I will take on face value the fact that it is actually a Japanese garden. Diliff | (Talk) (Contribs) 09:33, 13 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    • Speaking as a Japanese person, this garden does appear abnormal. It may have something to do with the fact that, although it was designed by a Japanese gardener, it was designed for a foreign terrain. That being said, I withdrew my opposition, as long as it stays clear that this is a "foreign" Japanese garden. Tokugawapants 20:53, 13 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose - I have no idea if the picture is representative of a Japanese garden or not. Aesthetically, I don't lik it. The compostion is unbalanced and cluttered with too many elements. The tree and dark bushes in the foreground are particularly ugly. Maybe another POV? Finally the image seems overstaurated. Alvesgaspar 20:23, 13 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: I lived in Japan for three years and this is a very atypical Japanese garden. The only one I can think of that has wide expanses of lawn like this is Kōraku-en. howcheng {chat} 22:12, 13 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Stron support - very nice view on the japanese garden :) Andrew18 @ 22:28, 14 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Too cluttered, appears to be a random collection of coloured objects in a field Wikipete 21:11, 15 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per nom. Avala 00:15, 16 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Even though this is slightly over-exposed, it doesn't matter due to the picture quality and beautiful Japanese garden. Matthuxtable 18:00, 16 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment The garden in this photograph is visually very different from Japanese gardens in Japan. One difference is the species. The designer of the Cowra garden appears to have used native species, which appear very different from the pines and maples (for example) of gardens in Japan. A second difference is the amount of space. The Cowra location has much more space than typical gardens in Japan at Buddhist temples and other private locations. Only the very largest gardens in Japan, such as those built by daimyo, are on a scale that can compare with Cowra's garden.
  • This photograph aptly shows a present-day Japanese gardener's response to the terrain, vegetation and space of an Australian setting. For that reason, it has a place in the article on Japanese gardens as an illustration of a Japanese garden outside Japan. In my opinion, it should not be the main photograph in that article. It could be the first illustration of the section on Japanese gardens outside Japan. Also, there are three photos from Cowra in that article. A single picture would avoid concerns of undue weight. Fg2 10:15, 18 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    • Valid points. Part of the reason I waited for almost a year before nominating was to see if anyone came along with a better image of a Japanese Garden for that article, say from Japan. That has not happened. I also only put three images in the article due to the generally low quality of what was there already. I know I may be a bit biased since they're my photos, but I think all the images contribute to the article and are higher quality and better composed than most of the other images in there; other than this one, the other two are pretty generic, but I have identified them as from Cowra in their captions. Nonetheless I'm happy for them to be replaced if someone contributes something better, and happy for that lead image to be shifted as you suggest, again if someone produces something better that gives an overview of a Japanese Garden, as this does. --jjron 02:44, 20 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I would tend to agree that whether this picture is appropriate for the Japanese garden article would be an editorial decision best suited for the appropriate talk page. That said, it's still enc for Cowra, New South Wales and Cowra Shire Council. Thus, I'm inclined to promote this image. MER-C 10:36, 18 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Promoted File:07. Japanese Garden Pano, Cowra, NSW, 22.09.2006.jpg
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