Wikipedia:Featured picture candidates/Cremation at Pashupatinath Temple

Mourner and burning ghat in Pashupatinath Temple

Voting period is over. Please don't add any new votes. Voting period ends on 29 Jul 2010 at 07:28:21 (UTC)

Articles in which this image appears: Pashupatinath Temple, Cremation
Creator: Benjamint 07:28, 20 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Support as nominator --Benjamint 07:28, 20 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
These ceremonies are quite public and photography is accepted. Nevertheless I chose an angle from which the mourner is unrecognizable due to the heat-distortion Benjamint 07:33, 20 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Support. Nice shot. Good EV in both articles and the image quality is excellent, albeit low res. Ðiliff «» (Talk) 08:20, 20 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: I think that, if this was to pass, it may warrant a place here- it's potentially a rather disturbing image. J Milburn (talk) 19:42, 20 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Support per Diliff. I can only imagine that squeamishness is preventing others from participating. Question though: the article says "Non-Hindu visitors are allowed to have a look at the temple from the other bank of Bagmati river" and "Along the shores of the Bagmati river near the temple lies "Arya Ghat", the most widely used place of cremation in Nepal", while this other image of yours which looks like a zoom of this location , and your use of the 400mm lens would indicate that this possibly was taken from across the river and is possibly Arya Ghat rather than the temple. Phew - to get to my point, if I am correct, the caption, image page, and location in the article all should be improved to reflect this, as it would all be misleading atm (btw a geocode would be nice too :-) ). If I'm wrong, please correct me. -jjron (talk) 13:54, 21 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

You're right, I didn't realize that the cremation area, Arya Ghat, was separate to the temple. Will make a few changes. Benjamint 23:52, 21 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose. I would like to support this, but I have given it some thought, and I have some issues. Firstly, the background is rather distracting- the mourner and corrugated iron draw the eye. Secondly, the image isn't massive- yeah, it's above our minimum, but I do get the impression that a slightly larger image would be better. Thirdly, I'm concerned about EV. It's very much just another shot of a cremation in cremation (on a loosely related note, the fact we don't have an article on cremation in Hinduism specifically is shocking...) while I can't really see what it's adding to the other article. All round, I don't think this one is quite there, sorry. J Milburn (talk) 16:16, 21 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- I can't say I agree that the corrugated iron draws the eye. It's hard not to be drawn to the burning cadaver in the foreground, surely? And I don't think it's just another shot - it's one of only two images that actually shows a cremation complete with cadaver up close. All the others show the scene or building in which cremations occur without really showing the cremation itself in any detail. It's a little disturbing, sure, but it's got loads of EV for that reason IMO. Ðiliff «» (Talk) 16:47, 21 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  - I'd feel more comfortable with this if the respective articles were cleaned up a little (with images, less can often be more...) so that the EV was clear. As I said, I'd love to support this. J Milburn (talk) 00:39, 23 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose This is nothing special. It actually is snap shotty. However, it might make FP with the following advice.

Do you see the guy in the background? POSITION HIM. Walk up to people, and talk to them. Gut Monk (talk) 00:00, 22 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Perhaps you were sleep-editing again since while you're linked image is a beautifull portrait it doesn't have any relevance or EV to this subject, and neither would any similar image that I could have taken. I doubt that the mourner's hoodie would have quite the same impression as the girl's more traditional garb, leaving him out of context and looking more like a grumpy adolescent missing his skate-board. Furthermore, having read the article and above comments you would of course have noted that non-hindus may not enter that area.. and seriously, would you feel comfortable walking up to a grieving man asking for a photo shoot and to kindly sign some model release papers? Benjamint 01:27, 22 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Don't you know that photo is world famous and even lead to a recent investigation long after the war that picture was taken during to find out who she is? I think his point is that the person might've been more interesting than just him being at a cremation, a slice of life sort of thing. It's also stupid to make assumptions and jump to conclusions about people just off their clothes, you don't know what either of the people you mentioned might be going through or who they really are. --I′d※<3※Ɵɲɛ (talk) 03:30, 22 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I think you may have missed Benjamint's point, but anyway... Re the green hoodie fella, I'm not even sure he is a mourner. This more distant image indicates that apart from being a cremation site, this appears to be a general thoroughfare and possibly just a bit of a 'hangout spot' as well. Therefore he may be nothing to do with this cremation, but just hanging out there - talk about a slice of life! --jjron (talk) 08:58, 22 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I think Benjamint's photo has a legitimate photojournalistic method and style and he makes a legitimate point about the Afghan girl's portrait being completely different. A photojournalist documents and observes, there's certainly no obligation to interact. In fact, sometimes interaction affects the ability to observe impartially. And I would have taken issue with Gut Monk's response too. Rather than merely expressing an opinion about the photo, he seemed to imply that he was the foremost expert on photojournalistic composition and it could only make FP if his advice was followed. Comes across as a bit arrogant and condescending... Ðiliff «» (Talk) 09:01, 22 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose looks more like the result of a riot then a religious cremation. The background does not look attractive. Also this would have to be excluded from the front page I think, burning bodies probably isn't something we should put on the front page. — raeky T 00:44, 22 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I know what you mean, but I'm sure there would be some people who would have something to say about that. WackyWace ^{you talkin' to me?} 19:22, 22 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

We without a doubt censor the front page, theres an active blacklist of articles for FA and some images like this won't be featured as a POD. — raeky T 19:38, 22 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed, we do censor the main page, although that's an aside really. It shouldn't affect whether it becomes a FP or not. And I don't see how it could be mistaken for the result of a riot with after any real consideration. A rioter likely wouldn't place a body on a bed of wood and set it alight. Besides, even if it could be mistaken for something else, that's probably the nature of the event, and not the fault of the photo. Ðiliff «» (Talk) 20:41, 22 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

It's not the fault of the photo but the background, it just doesn't look good.. Theres a lot better ways to photograph a religious cremation.. — raeky T 20:52, 22 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Strong Support Good quality and rare image.--Mbz1 (talk) 04:26, 22 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Support Per those that do. Noodle snacks (talk) 06:11, 23 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Question What is it that's burning? Is it an animal? Gazhiley (talk) 10:37, 23 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- It's a cadaver - a dead person. No, ghat is not a typo of goat. ;-) Ðiliff «» (Talk) 11:22, 23 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  - No ;-) required - I assumed it was something like a goat... but an actual human is burning? eeewwwwwwww!!! This better not go near the front page... I've just had lunch too! This sort of thing should stay inside buildings not be out on the street... Disgusting... Gazhiley (talk) 13:28, 23 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
    - In all seriousness, that is a little culturally insensitive. This is common practice within Indian/Hindu culture. J Milburn (talk) 14:06, 23 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
      - Unfortunately this is probably a pervasive feeling amount the western cultures. I personally wouldn't want to see or worse smell this IRL. If this was the Indian wiki, then it would probably without question be allowed on the front page, but this isn't and discretion should probably be followed and exclude this from the POD. — raeky T 14:12, 23 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
        Personally I see no reason this shouldn't go on the mainpage and find nothing offensive about it myself, but meh, I don't think POTD is the main point of FPC. But just looking at the !votes and comments on this, is there something about Aussies that makes them impervious to the type of squeamishness that many others seem to be showing? :-) --jjron (talk) 14:18, 23 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
        Aussies are strange blokes, it's scientifically proven I think. — raeky T 14:24, 23 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
        It's just my opinion... nothing more... maybe I was a little rash saying this shouldn't go near the front page... it was kinda meant in a playful way tho, honest! But either way, I don't agree with something like this being so public and in such a "slapdash" way ie chucked on top of a load of wood and set fire... Something as significant as a cremation should be kept private and not in the open... But that's just my opinion... Not saying I'm right or wrong - just that this is my opinion... Gazhiley (talk) 15:18, 23 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
        As I said above, I agree that this probably should not go on the main page, as there are plenty who would find the image a little disturbing. I was referring specifically to some of Gaz's other comments (also, sorry, I wasn't meaning to "tell you off" or anything). J Milburn (talk) 18:24, 23 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose The background is too distracting. File:Pashupatinath Cremation.jpg and File:Ghat nepal.JPG IMO capture the atmosphere better. The fact it is a ghat is manifested in both pics. The proximity to the temple is seen in the former. Both these elements are critical to the importance of Arya Ghat. A better photo of an open public cremation can be captured on this ghat or on Nigambodh Ghat or on Manikarnika Ghat at Varanasi. --Redtigerxyz ^Talk 17:00, 27 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Support Very good composition. The background is not distracting to me. --Elekhh (talk) 15:30, 28 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Not promoted --Makeemlighter (talk) 09:19, 29 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]