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The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was kept by PresN via FACBot (talk) 00:25, 2 November 2018 (UTC) [1].[reply]

Memorial to Heroic Self Sacrifice

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Memorial to Heroic Self Sacrifice (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

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Notified: Iridescent, WikiProject Public Art/London.
Also pinging BD2412, Dreamy Jazz, EEng, Gonnym, HughJLF and Lord Belbury, all of whom were involved in the move discussion. Ham II (talk) 16:32, 30 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

This article had its featured list star removed by Bradv following this discussion to move it from the title List of tablets on the Memorial to Heroic Self Sacrifice, but it was never submitted to FLRC. Ham II (talk) 14:14, 30 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

  • @TonyBallioni: I see it is in response to User:Gonnym comment at the move discussion, "if this stops being a list, be sure to remove the featured list tag. I doubt the current state of the article would get a FA as the lead section has information (basically all of it) that is not present in the article violating MOS:LEAD (which the list might in-fact also be doing, but I'm unsure how FL assessment works
    And where it also seems they are equally unsure about how FL-demotion occurs. —SerialNumber54129 paranoia /cheap sh*t room 16:39, 30 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • The featured status should be reinstated / not removed from this page, as there is no reason why is fails the criteria. Dreamy Jazz 🎷 talk to me | my contributions 16:37, 30 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Rmove - First of all, I didn't start this removal process, if I had done so, I would actually come with the backup for why it should be removed. But since it already started, and you're all fast to save this undeserving article, then let's start. First yes, the change in the article makes the scope of the article not a list. It talks about the monument itself. The list in it, is just a sub-section of the article. A lot of regular articles have lists sub-sections. So with that, it fails Wikipedia:Featured list criteria #1 - the lead does not define the scope of the inclusion criteria. In addition, it fails #5 as it violates MOS:LEAD, the table violates WP:ACCESSIBILITY, the images in the table have a copy/paste alt text - not even trying, the reference section violates MOS:HEAD. It fails #3 as the the only section is "Tablets on the Memorial to Heroic Self Sacrifice". Where is the history of the monument, the development, controversies, public reaction? Some of the notes aren't even sources which violate WP:V. This is without even trying to find what is wrong with this article. I'm not sure how you all just look at this and find it all ok. --Gonnym (talk) 18:01, 30 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

A few points of order, speaking as an FL delegate:

  • Renaming/moving an FL is not grounds to automatically delist
  • FLs should not be delisted in any case without an FLRC discussion, especially if the article continues to exist (e.g. is not a redirect)
  • At first glance, this article is still mostly composed of a table, with some explanatory text above, and so would generally be considered a "list"

All that said, Gonnym has mentioned several issues with the list that would/could lead to it being delisted. I'm not going to weigh in on the list's merits right now, but nominating oddities aside in my opinion this is a perfectly valid FLRC and should continue as such- if consensus is that Memorial to Heroic Self Sacrifice is not FL quality, it will be delisted, otherwise it will not. --PresN 21:04, 30 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

  • Keep some of the "issues" mentioned above aren't really issues at all, and it strikes me that this is one of those occasions that it would have been much easier and more profitable for all concerns for those trivial items to be addressed by modifying the article rather this rather unnecessary course of action. A few comments: (a) it doesn't need to say "list" for it to be a list article, that's nonsense, we have literally thousands of featured lists which don't have "list" in the title. There's no clear indication as to what the "inclusion criteria" needs to be here now the article is the main article about the memorial, but if one wanted to add a single sentence to cover that the list section includes all the tablets, that'd be just fine. The alt text is just fine so there's no access concerns at all. If anyone wishes to expand the article to cover more of the items noted above, feel free to do so. Note [a] could use a ref but all other notes are just fine. So, please, let's all just relax a bit and work on identifying fixes here. And as for "This is without even trying to find what is wrong with this article", see WP:NOTPERFECT and WP:POINT. This article had a community consensus to promote to FL, and as far as I can see, not much has changed since then. The Rambling Man (talk) 19:19, 1 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

There does not seem to be a consensus to delist, so closing as kept. --PresN 02:11, 1 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

  • Closing note: This candidate has been kept, but there may be a delay in bot processing of the close. Please see WP:FLC/ar, and leave the {{featured list candidates}} template in place on the talk page until the bot goes through.
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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