Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/Timeline of the 2004 Atlantic hurricane season
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- The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.
The list was promoted by User:The Rambling Man 07:18, 22 August 2008 [1].
previous FLC (07:14, 11 August 2008)
Alright, let's try this again. It failed a couple days ago, due to a lack of support, despite having the majority of the issues addressed. Now that the article's polished up from the last FLC, I'm hoping this will be easy. In any event, thanks for the reviews! Juliancolton Tropical Cyclone 21:35, 11 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Support - I meant for my last !vote to be a Support once you had addressed my concerns, but I suppose I should have been more explicit. I know voting without proposing actionable suggestions is generally not given much weight, but your last FLC addressed all of my suggestions. Brilliant article. Plasticup T/C 12:22, 12 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Thanks for your support, Juliancolton Tropical Cyclone 12:23, 12 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- By the way, I found this by typing in the direct address. I think that you forgot to list is on Wikipedia:Featured list candidates. Plasticup T/C 12:26, 12 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- That's odd, I could have sworn I added it. Oh well, done now. Juliancolton Tropical Cyclone 12:37, 12 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- By the way, I found this by typing in the direct address. I think that you forgot to list is on Wikipedia:Featured list candidates. Plasticup T/C 12:26, 12 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Thanks for your support, Juliancolton Tropical Cyclone 12:23, 12 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment - your lead says the season ended Nov 30 but the list says the season ended Dec 3. The Rambling Man (talk) 12:28, 12 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- This tends to be a little confusing. You see, the National Hurricane Center designates the Atlantic hurricane season to officially begin on June 1 and officially end on November 30. That is the period when most tropical cyclones form in the basin. However, it is not unprecedented for storms to occur outside of those dates, similar to the way snow can fall before or after the winter months. Hope that clears it up some. Juliancolton Tropical Cyclone 12:37, 12 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- I understand that I think but the wording in the list contradicts itself directly so it's a source of confusion. The Dec 3 entry reads "ending the season" while the lead says "season, which officially began on June 1, 2004, and lasted until November 30" - perhaps it needs a footnote or something to avoid this confusion. Also, Charley and Danielle are bold once each, why? The Rambling Man (talk) 12:40, 12 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Boldings removed. I must have missed them when removing the others. Also, I reworded the list to specify that November 30 was the last storm of the season, not the official end. Juliancolton Tropical Cyclone 12:59, 12 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Super job, thanks. Final question, might have asked it already - why not use the {{convert}} template for guaranteed consistent conversion and non-breaking spaces per the MOS? The Rambling Man (talk) 13:04, 12 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- As wind speeds in storm reports are most often rounded to the nearest five mph, using {{convert}} would give a specific, non-rounded conversion. Juliancolton Tropical Cyclone 13:11, 12 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Have you looked at using
sigfigin the template? You could round to the nearest 10 kph for 323 kph->320kph by usingsigfig=2? The Rambling Man (talk) 13:35, 12 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]- I'm terrible with templates, so I can't seem to figure out how to work that parameter, but I'll continue to tinker with it. Juliancolton Tropical Cyclone 13:51, 12 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- That template would not be precise enough. The original sources have a resolution of 5 kph/mph/kt, so using convert, even with sigfig=2, modifies the value of the conversion away from the original source. Titoxd(?!? - cool stuff) 21:51, 12 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- I thought since the original sources would all be imperial (being US-sourced), then they'd all be in mph. I've checked quite a few and they're all that way. Converting to kph doesn't need to be to the nearest 5kph, what's the logic behind that? 1mph is nearly 2kph so if you were really keen to make a logical rounding, kph should be rounded to the nearest 10kph. But frankly I'm not sure why the rounding of the converted unit needs to take place at all. Right now you have arguably incorrect conversions through an arbitrary rounding. And in the list there currently exists " 45 mph (72 km/h)" which isn't resolved to 5kph either...You also have "240 miles (390 km)" where 240 miles is 386km (so rounded to the nearest 10km?). Are there cut-off points which I'm unaware of where you round to nearest 1, 5, 10 etc? Can someone advise? The Rambling Man (talk) 09:11, 13 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Yes. Maximum sustained windspeed measurements and position fixes are provided by the source material by using the original value in knots, rounding it to mph and km/h, and then rounding up all the values to the nearest 5 or 0. This is due to the resolution of the grid used by the National Hurricane Center and other Regional Specialized Meteorological Centres in tropical cyclone forecasting. There are other measurements, like recorded peak gusts at measurement stations, that can be converted to the nearest unit because these measurements have a higher resolution than the position and max winds measurements. Essentially, we follow whatever value the source uses, and we don't see a problem with rounding up or down manually. Titoxd(?!? - cool stuff) 19:15, 13 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- I thought since the original sources would all be imperial (being US-sourced), then they'd all be in mph. I've checked quite a few and they're all that way. Converting to kph doesn't need to be to the nearest 5kph, what's the logic behind that? 1mph is nearly 2kph so if you were really keen to make a logical rounding, kph should be rounded to the nearest 10kph. But frankly I'm not sure why the rounding of the converted unit needs to take place at all. Right now you have arguably incorrect conversions through an arbitrary rounding. And in the list there currently exists " 45 mph (72 km/h)" which isn't resolved to 5kph either...You also have "240 miles (390 km)" where 240 miles is 386km (so rounded to the nearest 10km?). Are there cut-off points which I'm unaware of where you round to nearest 1, 5, 10 etc? Can someone advise? The Rambling Man (talk) 09:11, 13 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Have you looked at using
- As wind speeds in storm reports are most often rounded to the nearest five mph, using {{convert}} would give a specific, non-rounded conversion. Juliancolton Tropical Cyclone 13:11, 12 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Super job, thanks. Final question, might have asked it already - why not use the {{convert}} template for guaranteed consistent conversion and non-breaking spaces per the MOS? The Rambling Man (talk) 13:04, 12 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Boldings removed. I must have missed them when removing the others. Also, I reworded the list to specify that November 30 was the last storm of the season, not the official end. Juliancolton Tropical Cyclone 12:59, 12 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- I understand that I think but the wording in the list contradicts itself directly so it's a source of confusion. The Dec 3 entry reads "ending the season" while the lead says "season, which officially began on June 1, 2004, and lasted until November 30" - perhaps it needs a footnote or something to avoid this confusion. Also, Charley and Danielle are bold once each, why? The Rambling Man (talk) 12:40, 12 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- This tends to be a little confusing. You see, the National Hurricane Center designates the Atlantic hurricane season to officially begin on June 1 and officially end on November 30. That is the period when most tropical cyclones form in the basin. However, it is not unprecedented for storms to occur outside of those dates, similar to the way snow can fall before or after the winter months. Hope that clears it up some. Juliancolton Tropical Cyclone 12:37, 12 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Well whoever "we" are, your rounding is not explained clearly and is inconsistent. It appears that numbers below 100 (?) are rounded to the nearest unit. Rounding to the nearest 5 or 0 seems to occur at an arbitrary point too. Your sources here appear in mph to the nearest 5mph, it doesn't mean the converted values have to follow any such rule - it just compounds the error. What's wrong with the {{convert}} template which provides consistently correct answers to a definable sig fig? The Rambling Man (talk) 21:39, 13 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- We = WP:WPTC. Again, whatever rounded value is used by sources operationally (like this source for a current storm) is what we tend to use. Note the in the link, the NHC says that 40 mi = 65 km/h, while with convert, it would be 64 km/h. {{convert}} is unnecessary, and would introduce deviation from sources; I would object to this article being promoted if the template were used for this purpose. Titoxd(?!? - cool stuff) 21:47, 13 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Cool, the penny has finally dropped! In that case, may I suggest a footnote which says all conversions are as per the source information? That way we all win - you can avoid using the template and I can shut up about the dodgy conversions! Is that a deal or is that a deal? The Rambling Man (talk) 21:52, 13 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- How about the text I just put there? Titoxd(?!? - cool stuff) 22:07, 13 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Cool, I'll shut up now. The Rambling Man (talk) 07:09, 14 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- How about the text I just put there? Titoxd(?!? - cool stuff) 22:07, 13 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Cool, the penny has finally dropped! In that case, may I suggest a footnote which says all conversions are as per the source information? That way we all win - you can avoid using the template and I can shut up about the dodgy conversions! Is that a deal or is that a deal? The Rambling Man (talk) 21:52, 13 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Comments 1) the first thing that lept out at me when i looked at this article was that the season begining and end are not marked in the prose where as on the 2005 Atlantic timeline they are marked within the prose 2) Referencing - There is only one dates that does not have a reference on it which is August 3rd Jason Rees (talk) 14:06, 12 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Since my comments have now been Resolved i Support the nomination Jason Rees (talk) 17:02, 12 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Comment- reference #1 (HURDAT) is missing an access date, and links to page that doesn't reference either a) the number of storms in the season, or b) the definition of a major hurricane. Titoxd(?!? - cool stuff) 21:55, 12 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]- Fixed. –Juliancolton Tropical Cyclone 22:06, 12 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Ugh, the problem with that reference is that it will be broken next year. I guess if you keep an eye on it, it shouldn't be a problem. I still don't like the second paragraph of the lede that much, but I think it is clearer than the version in the first nomination. Support. Titoxd(?!? - cool stuff) 22:13, 12 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Fixed. –Juliancolton Tropical Cyclone 22:06, 12 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.