Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/Premier League Manager of the Season/archive1

The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by Giants2008 23:08, 27 February 2012 [1].

Premier League Manager of the Season

Featured list candidates/Premier League Manager of the Season/archive1

Nominator(s): Lemonade51 (talk), The Rambling Man (talk) 18:31, 13 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I am nominating this for featured list because I believe this meets WP:FLC. I created this very list five years ago, yet never had the time to complete it – it has since recieved a Peer review and mirrors the other Premier League awards already listed as FL's: the Manager of the Month and Player of the Month. Any feedback, critique, suggestions would be welcome. Lemonade51 (talk) 16:58, 13 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Ahem, have you notified/co-nominated with the major contributors? The Rambling Man (talk) 17:11, 13 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Whoops, you are a major contributor to this I apologise, HonorTheKing, MickMacNee too. Will notify through talk. – Lemonade51 (talk) 17:17, 13 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Here to inform that will also help fixing the issues it might raise. Lemonade51 did a fantastic job on improving the article, sourcing, and what not.
– HonorTheKing (talk) 17:31, 13 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

So I'll co-nom since it seems that not much was done to the list since I last edited it. The Rambling Man (talk) 18:31, 13 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Is it wanted that Wenger is linked 10 times in the table? Shouldn'T it be oly the first one? Or is that because of sorting? -Koppapa (talk) 20:39, 13 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I assume you mean Ferguson, and yes, it's because the table is sortable, so each time an item is linked, it should be wikilinked. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:04, 13 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose, could use a lot more work, e.g. like the recent List of UEFA European Football Championship finals FLC, which has a nice "history" section which this could easily accommodate, especially since it's so short. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:06, 13 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I would also suggest that any history section added is copyedited thoroughly... The Rambling Man (talk) 21:42, 13 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

~~Will do. Need to add sources too, thanks for your feedback.~~ Done, will go over it after a dose of forty winks. That and Parutakupiu's comments. – Lemonade51 (talk) 01:09, 14 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved comments from Parutakupiu (talk) 19:14, 14 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Comments:

~~I see no reason to wikilink "award", "broadcast" and "sponsorship".~~ Corrected.
~~Link "Carling" in its first instance ("... Carling Manager of the Year...").~~ Corrected.
"... and Manager of the Season and awards... " – Extra "and"? Corrected.
"... the previous season and Harry Redknapp in 2009–10 for steering... " – Place a semicolon after "season". Corrected.
"... steering Tottenham Hotspur into a top-four... " – Steering "to"? Corrected.
"As of May 2011, the most recent recipient of the award is Scottish manager Sir Alex Ferguson, who manages Manchester United." – No need to go into detail again about Ferguson, since he was already mentioned before as United' manager. Corrected.
~~The columns in the list of winners have too much blank space because of the enforced width parameters. I'd let the table "choose" its column widths.~~ Corrected.
- ~~Actually, now the columns looks too tight without a bit of blank space. Sorry, but could you try and add just of bit of empty space to the three middle columns? The same width would be the best.~~ Parutakupiu (talk) 17:37, 14 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  - Done. I have reverted back the table to its previous form if that is OK?
    - I made a small reduction. Are you OK with it? Parutakupiu (talk) 18:55, 14 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
"José Mourinho, two time winner with Chelsea" (caption) – hyphen missing between two and time. Corrected.
- ~~You misunderstood me: you added a en-dash after "José Mourinho". Do the same with Wenger's caption ("three-time").~~ Parutakupiu (talk) 17:37, 14 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  - Corrected now.
~~You could also add a "by club" section.~~ Done.

— Parutakupiu (talk) 00:14, 14 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you very much for your feedback. – Lemonade51 (talk) 11:27, 14 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Some more comments:
- ~~If you append "Premier League" just before the boldfaced "Manager of the Season", it will validate the use of the boldfacing, as per WP:BOLDTITLE.~~ Done.
- "... top–four finish... " – Hyphen here, not en-dash. Corrected
- "Kenny Dalglish was awarded the allocate in the 1994–95 season having guided... " – "Allocate"? You mean accolade? There's also one like this in the second paragraph you should fix. Corrected
- "... first manager born outside of Britain..." Simplify: "... first non-British manager...". Corrected
- "... with the prize not going to a manager of the league champions..." Noun + 'ing' sounds bad. Say "... as the prize did not go to a league-winning manager...". Corrected
  - You removed "...for the first time." unnecessarily. I've added back. Parutakupiu (talk) 18:55, 14 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- "... the previous season finished in fifth position..." – Add a comma after "season". Corrected
- "... third consecutive championship and Liverpool manager Gérard Houllier who guided..." – Commas after "championship" and "Houllier" Corrected
- "Reflecting on Wenger's accomplishment Barclaycard Awards Panel spokesperson Nic Gault said, 'Arsene Wenger..." – Take the comma after "said" and put it after "accomplishment". Also, place a period after the end of the quote (just before ref. 21 anchor). Corrected the first part, do you mean published date? Because it isn't available for some reason. – Lemonade51 (talk) 17:56, 14 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  - No, I meant a full stop mark after the quotation marks, but I've checked the MoS and it's not necessary, so I take this back. Parutakupiu (talk) 18:55, 14 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- "... becoming the first foriegn manager..." – Typo. Corrected
- ~~You forgot to change "Country" to "Club" in the heading of the by-club table.~~ Corrected
- ~~One of the last two images could be placed within the history section. Not only it softens a text-heavy section, but also prevents perturbation of section heading.~~ Adjusted

— Parutakupiu (talk) 17:37, 14 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Hope you don't mind but I made a general copyedit to the text and also fixed the image layout. Please, see if you agree with my changes. Parutakupiu (talk) 18:55, 14 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

No problem. – Lemonade51 (talk) 19:04, 14 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Support gladly. Parutakupiu (talk) 19:14, 14 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved comments from NapHit (talk) 19:27, 16 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Comments

Images need alt text

I assume you mean the bottom two images? – Lemonade51 (talk) 15:26, 15 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The image in the lead doesn't have it either, so I mean all three. Here's a link if you're unsure what I'm asking. NapHit (talk) 17:07, 15 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Alt text added. The Rambling Man (talk) 09:20, 16 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The two tables below the by year table need to comply with MOS:DTT and top table needs a caption. NapHit (talk) 14:53, 15 January 2012 (UTC) Done[reply]

Support NapHit (talk) 19:27, 16 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved comments from Giants2008 (Talk) 23:03, 31 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Comments –

Remove "for" from "Ferguson has been Manager of the Year for ten times"?
History: Remove "to" from "resisting to Newcastle United's threat."
Ref 25 should be moved outside the comma.
Ref 11 needs an en dash to replace the hyphen in the title.
The publisher (The Guardian) appears to be missing from ref 20.
Publishers in refs 27 and 31 (Daily Mail) should be italicized as they're from a printed publication. Giants2008 (Talk) 21:29, 22 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- Done, hopefully. Thanks for your comments!! The Rambling Man (talk) 22:17, 22 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved comments from Struway2 (talk) 13:09, 25 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Comments seeing as the tables are simple, basic and functional, I'll have to concentrate on the prose. You'll like that...

"announced in the second or third week of May", not "announced on.
- Corrected. The Rambling Man (talk) 11:38, 23 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Perhaps restructure the sentence about names. "It has been called" doesn't imply it was named after its sponsor; "it is currently" might be better as "since then" or "since which time"; not sure it sometimes being referred to as Barclays Manager of the Year rather than Season is worth mentioning, unless that was the award's proper name at some stage.
- Rephrased somewhat. The Rambling Man (talk) 13:21, 23 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
If wikilinking the names of the two former sponsors, best to link the current sponsor as well
- Done. The Rambling Man (talk) 13:15, 23 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Suggest saying briefly what "the existing LMA Manager of the Year‎ award" is/was: "the existing manager of the year award presented by the League Managers Association"?
- Done. The Rambling Man (talk) 13:15, 23 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Ferguson's "more than half of the awards given so far" is another relative time reference
- Added precise time reference. The Rambling Man (talk) 11:42, 23 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Wenger wasn't the "first manager outside of Britain": "first non-British manager", perhaps
- Indeed, corrected. The Rambling Man (talk) 11:42, 23 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
For consistency, perhaps mention Wenger's and Mourinho's clubs
- Added. The Rambling Man (talk) 11:42, 23 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Perhaps recast the Mourinho sentence: two in a row beginning "XXX became the first manager..." isn't ideal. He didn't really "become" the first manager after Ferguson to win it twice consecutively, he "was" the first to do so.
- Reworded. The Rambling Man (talk) 13:22, 23 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
History. The "however" adds nothing in "Manchester United, however, regained the Premier League"...
- Removed. The Rambling Man (talk) 11:38, 23 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Move the 1997-98 into the last part of the Wenger sentence: as it reads now, it makes the reader wonder who the second non-British manager was to win the award for that season. Try "Wenger was the first non–British manager to receive the Manager of the Season award, having led Arsenal to the top of the Premier League in 1997–98, his first full season at the club."
- Reworded. The Rambling Man (talk) 13:28, 23 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
"second-placed Arsenal", not "second-place Arsenal"
- Fixe.d. The Rambling Man (talk) 11:47, 23 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Does "ultimately" add much to "a run which ultimately ensured the club regained the Premier League trophy"?
- No, banished. The Rambling Man (talk) 11:44, 23 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Is the name of the awards panel spokesperson relevant?
- Not desperately, erased. The Rambling Man (talk) 11:47, 23 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I'd guess MOS:QUOTE would allow us to add the missing accent to Arsene in the spokesperson's quote, though probably not to insert a comma into "exciting attacking football".
- Done. The Rambling Man (talk) 11:44, 23 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
"in a period when Manchester United regained" rather than "where"? and not sure the comma's necessary before "and retained"
- Fixed. The Rambling Man (talk) 12:50, 23 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Please clarify "leading Manchester United to an historic 19th league title, overtaking Liverpool."
- Just left it as "a record 19th..." The Rambling Man (talk) 13:09, 23 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Mourinho image caption: TRM has assured me before that the construct "two-time winner" is acceptable in British English, but is it really an improvement on "twice winner"?
- Rephrased into prose. The Rambling Man (talk) 11:47, 23 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
References. The BBC refs should (as far as I can tell) be either all BBC News or all BBC Sport.
- Unified. The Rambling Man (talk) 11:38, 23 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  - Just for future reference, BBC Sport Online became a separate strand in 2000. Does that mean any sport related articles published by the Beeb pre-2000 should be categorised as 'BBC Sport'? Or 'BBC News' as it suggests in its heading? – Lemonade51 (talk) 13:46, 23 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    - Thanks for pointing out what I clearly failed to notice when it was sat in front of me :-( You're quite right, the earlier ones should indeed be BBC News, or BBC Online, rather than the then non-existent BBC Sport. Apologies for making unnecessary extra work for you both. cheers, Struway2 (talk) 14:42, 23 January 2012 (UTC)#[reply]
      - No worries, back-fixed. The Rambling Man (talk) 14:49, 23 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
#27 Sporting Life ref should be work=sportinglife.com publisher=365 Media Group
- Done, and fixed the title while I was at it...! The Rambling Man (talk) 12:58, 23 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Ref #23 doesn't verify the stats mentioned in the sentence.
- Added an explicit ref (I hope you were referring to the lack of direct ref to the "record"?) The Rambling Man (talk) 12:50, 23 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  - I've changed the Statto.com ref for another page from the same site that does show Chelsea's goals scored/conceded. Struway2 (talk) 10:27, 25 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    - Oh, yes, I missed that it only had the GD, not the GF and GA. Thanks. The Rambling Man (talk) 10:32, 25 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Lead. Could we possibly construct a better opening sentence than "The Premier League Manager of the Season ... recognises the most outstanding Premier League manager of the season."
- Yeah, fair, any suggestions? Everything floating my mind is rubbish.... The Rambling Man (talk) 13:21, 23 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  - If I could write decent prose, I'd have loads of featured content. As it is..... Probably needs shuffling about so you don't actually have an opening sentence of that type. Struway2 (talk) 10:27, 25 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    - Have tried.... The Rambling Man (talk) 10:32, 25 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
      - An improvement, certainly. Incidentally, there is an article called Manager (association football), if that would be a better link than Coach (sports). Struway2 (talk) 10:39, 25 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
        Aha, well I never. Thanks, replaced. The Rambling Man (talk) 10:41, 25 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Hope some of this is helpful, cheers, Struway2 (talk) 11:02, 23 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

All of it helpful, I've attempted to address them all bar the very first one. Further input would be great, thanks so far. The Rambling Man (talk) 13:28, 23 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Support. Thought I already had, sorry. Meets FL criteria. cheers, Struway2 (talk) 11:21, 21 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.