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The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted 00:36, 22 April 2008.

List of songs in Guitar Hero II

[edit]

Self-nomination - I have followed the same approach for the first List of songs in Guitar Hero in fixing up this list, and have already asked Drewcifer for an off-the-cuff check of the table (as there's some new formatting that needs to be done for this list). --MASEM 23:30, 6 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Support Good work! One last minor suggestion: the year column is wider then it needs to be. I'd recommend putting the sortable button thing on the line below "Year", since you've already got room for it. Drewcifer (talk) 01:33, 13 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I see. Whatever you did, it looks good to me. Drewcifer (talk) 20:12, 15 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved stuff from Drewcifer
  • Oppose for now. Looks pretty good, but there's one fatal flaw: the sources. Namely, the fact that the article references Wikipedia itself. Also, it sources blogs. Albeit, the blog is Major Nelson's, but it would definitely be preferable if you could find alternate sources (which I'm sure you could). A few other less pressing issues: the publisher values of the first two citations should be IGN, not IGN.com. Also, only wikilink in the first citation a publisher is mentioned. I am still wary of the notes for Guitar playable and the video preview thing. The video preview in particular seems reaaallly uneccessary: I can't imagine that contributing anything to the reader's understanding of the game or the songs. The rythm guitar/bass thing makes the list read more like a guide (see WP:Guide then a list). The same can be said for alot of the Main setlist prose. Column titles should only use capitals for proper nouns and the first word. So "Master Recording" should be "Master recording", "Release Date" should be "Release date", etc. The release dates should probably be spelled out. The list looks good so far, it just needs a bit of fine-tuning before I can support. Drewcifer (talk) 05:32, 7 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The Wikipedia refs I saw, and left them in but added a more appropriate source before nom ,as not sure how they'd be taken. Although I should be able to find duplicate information in other sources (given that GH2 is very popular), I will point out that Major Nelson's blog is generally considered the most reliable source for Xbox Live release information since he's basically cataloging everything that comes out each, regardless of popularity.
On wikilinking publishers, I know you'd normally do that in the wikitext, but given how reference order can change easily and automatically when using citation templates and when clearing other articles to FA, I've been told to wikilink the publisher at all times in the templates.
I agree that the rhythm guitar/video preview thing is not necessary or part of a general reader's understanding (though I think rhythm guitar may be of interest to some musicians), but I also think that moving them to symbols doesn't detract from the many purpose of the list. However, if there's more commentary against them, I can also see removing them. --MASEM 13:10, 7 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Ok, of the points above, I've addressed all of them except the wikilinking publisher one, and the rhythm guitar part (I did take out video previews). --MASEM 23:40, 7 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Looks good. A few more comments:
  • The blog references are still a problem.
  • I'm not a fan of the new My Chemical Romance picture: mainly because in low-resolution monitors such as mine (1024x768, which is a pretty common resolution), it squeezes the table into an uncomfortable size horizontally, making it unnecessarily big vertically. That, and the column widths no-longer match the other tables.
  • I'd recommend making a subheader in the Downloadable content section for the second table. Having two tables back-to-back isn't good form, especially when they list different things.
  • As for the green/black checks thing, it's not really a big deal, I just figured black was more neutral than green. Drewcifer (talk) 23:50, 7 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Ok, pic gone, {{ok}} used for checkmarks, added the subheader. I did add additional, more reliable sources to augment the Major Nelson's blog sources, and though while I feel that while a "blog", it has at least become to be considered as an RS within the gaming community. However, if this is a sticking point, it is possible to remove them, so... --MASEM 00:00, 8 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Good work so far (my past comments are hidden below). The Major Nelson blog still seem unnecessary to me. Of course there's the fact that it's a blog, but now that each blog source is echoed by another source, why are they necessary there at all? I think it would just be better to take them out completely since they're not adding adding anything now. Drewcifer (talk) 21:03, 12 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comments

  • Agree with Drewcifer over the blog references, though I can't see where it references Wikipedia.
  • The article talks about having to unlock the tiers, but then auto-sorts the songs alphabetically. I think they should be sorted to the PS2's Tier, as it was released first, and is probably how most readers of this page will want it presented to them.
  • What does the dagger represent?
  • Nevermind. The dagger note should be above the table, with the mdash; note and master recordings note.
  • Use Green tickY or checkY ({{ok}} or {{tick}}) instead of the image, if you have to have a check mark.
  • Again the dagger note and the double-dagger-or-whatever-it's-called Xbox exclusive notes should appear before the table. That double dagger is too close to the dagger, too, which would be fine if it was being used to show which songs include bass, but I would choose an entirely different symbol to highlight the XBox tracks
  • Should the cost, even in funny money, be included per WP:DIRECTORY?
  • ¶ key should be before the table

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Matthewedwards (talk • contribs)

The alpha order, and the current checkmark, is based on Drewcifer's comments from the previous List of songs in Guitar Hero and comments. First, that these lists need to be less specific about the gameplay and more about the songs (thus the reason it's closer to a discography than a level list), thus sorting alpha on title is more appropriate. Secondary, he was the one to suggest the use of the black checkmark instead of a colored one for the checkmarks. Costs are a bit tricky, since it is noted in the Guitar Hero II article (albeit standalone from this) that these are considered 'expensive' and that a lot of money has been made on the DLC. Look at WP:NOT, I don't see these falling absolutely any of the cases for sales catalog (it may be that these all can be considered "competing products"), but it has been the case that most downloadable content from XBox Live, PlayStation Network, or Wii Shopping has been included across many other articles. I think this is a good question for the WP:VG project to consider, but for now I think they should stay in, but I can remove them if necessary. --MASEM 13:10, 7 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Of the points listed above, I've fixed the mini-keys to be above the table, removed the cost and size info per a discussion on WT:VG and WT:NOT. Again, see above for the alpha order and the use of the black checkmark symbol. --MASEM 23:40, 7 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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