Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/List of leaders of the Soviet Union/archive2

The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by Dabomb87 00:09, 11 January 2011 [1].

List of leaders of the Soviet Union

Nominator(s): --TIAYN (talk) 19:08, 4 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I am nominating this for featured list status for a second time. --TIAYN (talk) 19:08, 4 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Comment (not supporting or opposing yet):

Done You should have a sentence at the start that mentions that which office served as the "leader" changed sometimes before launching into what those offices were.
Done The dates in "terms of office" in the table should be centered, not left-aligned.
Done Khrushchev- reword "removed from power after a trip to Scandinavia" to something that emphasizes that going to Scandinavia wasn't the cause/reason for the removal, they just did it while he was out of the country.
Done Gorbachev- "and resign on 24 August", "the following the day the Soviet Union" - please get someone to copyedit the text, I doubt that these are the only two examples, just the ones I happened to spot as I skimmed the table.

--Pres N 21:11, 4 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Support - I've been asked to come back and look at this, and I must say it looks and reads a lot better now. --Pres N 22:38, 3 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comment the table should be sortable. To do that, you will have to get rid of all the rowspans.—Chris!_c/t 01:53, 5 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Were does it say that that is a must? I don't see it anywhere an there are many articles which don't use sortable tables.. In other words, I'm not changing it! --TIAYN (talk) 14:29, 5 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  - Sortability allows readers to sort the info on the table. Since all the rowspans is gone, it is quite easy to make the table sortable now. This is a simple request, so I don't understand why you refuse to do it.—Chris!_c/t 05:09, 6 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]
    - I looked at making the table sortable, from a usability point of view. Unfortunately, it would only sort properly on the 'Name' as it stands. It could be made to sort on 'Term of office' or 'Congress' by using sort keys, but I'm not sure of what usability value any of that would add. Obviously, neither 'Portrait' nor 'Notes' will sort in a meaningful way. I've amended User:RexxS/List of leaders of the Soviet Union so that you can see what I mean. Given all that, in my humble opinion, I don't think this table would benefit from being sortable. --RexxS (talk) 14:34, 6 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Comment talking accessibility, User:RexxS kindly knocked up this as an example of what that part of the project would hope to see. I rather like it, and would appreciate TIAYN and the community's comments. Cheers. The Rambling Man (talk) 19:19, 5 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Done I can't say that I'm fond of the idea, but i've added his version... Question, should i add an image of a Troika member in each bar or should i leave it empty? --TIAYN (talk) 19:38, 5 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Done The only thing I see there that I really despise is the bolding of last names. Seems to me to be nothing but extra work that makes the page ugly, and adds nothing. Courcelles 21:13, 5 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

All six of the leaders in the two troikas have PD or CC-BY-SA images, so I think it would be possible to create a collage for each troika, as the table looks like it's missing something where those portraits would be. You could perhaps just add images in each case of the two members whose image is not already in the list, if space is a problem. Please let me know if you want any help, should you decide to add such images. --RexxS (talk) 14:54, 6 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Courcelles, I think the surnames were bold before the changes for accessibility were made, judging by the article history... The Rambling Man (talk) 16:55, 6 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Indeed. I deliberately preserved the original text formatting for my example (that's why the style="font-weight:normal" is there) in order to respect the author's intention. That's not to say I thought it was the best way of doing it. --RexxS (talk) 17:40, 6 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I've solved the image problems regarding the Troikas now... I created an entirely new section for them... Are these new changes acceptable? If not, please say so ;) --TIAYN (talk) 09:46, 7 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Few questions - You use the dashes to signify information missing in the congress column, shouldn't it be used in the same manner for the image column? can a better section header be provided other than "list"? you seem to begin to explain the process of how the leaders were elected to this position in the lead and "list" section, I was wondering if maybe this could be elaborated on more for the benefit of the user. Afro (Talk) 05:29, 6 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Done Changed the header too "List of leaders", is that better? Secondly, there was no formal line of succession; the leader did however need the support of the Politburo, Central Committee and the Secretariat to hold power. --TIAYN (talk) 13:16, 6 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Support - I have no problems with the list. Afro (Talk) 13:22, 16 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Should we include Gennady Yanayev into the list? I mean, he was Acting President of the Soviet Union; the most important and strongest office in the USSR at the time of the August Coup of 1991. Should we include him into the list??? --TIAYN (talk) 10:20, 7 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Man, I'm confused. Aren't you the nominator? The champion of the article, its shepherd? Shouldn't you have answered this question for yourself before you brought the list to FLC?

Also, regardless of you marking my comments up above as done, you haven't gotten a copyedit. Please get someone else to look over the entire list, not just the few points I mentioned. The third sentence in the lead has a huge comma splice- I will leave it to the editor to figure what it is but it's not hard to see. Also! "tried out" is unencyclopedic, and the last sentence of the lead is uncited and, more importantly, just kind of dangling there, unconnected to anything.

I also don't like how the troikas are divided out into a different section. I know its a pain to slot them into the table, but given that its unsortable and arranged by chronological order, I feel that the troikas should be in the same table. --Pres N 07:35, 9 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

But we will get the image problem again, which some other editors pointed out... When it comes to the inclusion of Gennady Yanayev into the list I am really, really unsure. On the other hand, I will try to find another editor to copyedit the article! --TIAYN (talk) 13:02, 9 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

User Tuscumbia has copyedited the article; is the list well-enough written now? --TIAYN (talk) 21:53, 9 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Support and comment - I would like to see term "Gerontocracy" mentioned somewhere in the article because it was a real problem in the seventies and early eighties. Article already mentions the ridiculous age of some of the latter leaders so why not make this article bit more academical. In addition I fixed a typo. Utinsh (talk) 00:32, 14 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Done, thanks for the support. --TIAYN (talk) 10:31, 14 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved comments from The Rambling Man (talk) 09:03, 24 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose lots of things, mostly very simple to fix though!

Done Consider # linking President to the appropriate section of that page, i.e. President#Presidents_as_head_of_state
Done Link Stalin in the lead.
Done And Khrushchev.
Done Perhaps a personal preference, but " which in turn played" would seem more appropriate as " which, in turn, played"
Done "Lenin's health..." replace Lenin's with His.
Done "Lenin's health at the age of 53, declined " comma before at.
Done "from continuous effects" why "continuous"? Not necessary in my opinion.
Done Which ENGVAR are you using (industrialization vs hospitalisation)?
Done "pushed for rapid industrialization, nationalization" perhaps an "and" missing here.
Done No need to abbreviate things if you don't use the abbreviation (e.g. NEP).
Done "Stalin died in March 1953.[19] In the power struggle triggered by Stalin's death in 1953, Nikita Khrushchev, after several years, emerged victorious against Georgy Malenkov.[20]" would merge these two sentences.
Done "Many saw his de-Stalinization policy" no need to repeat this, perhaps "Many saw this approach as..."
Done "A group known as Anti-Party Group tried to oust Khrushchev from office in 1957." and what happened?
Done "First Secretary the very same day " remove "very", no need.
Done "of the politburo" shouldn't that be Politburo?
Done "Henry A. Kissinger falsely believed t.." there's no context to understand who Kissinger was and why his opinion counted for anything.
Done "Mikhail Gorbachev" is overlinked.
Done "1988 and 1989 saw the..." avoid starting a sentence with a number.
Done (Birth–Death) -> (birth–death)
Done Question: what happened in the 20th and 21st congress?
Done "The following day of Gorbachev's resignation ..." ->"The day following Gorbachev's resignation as ..., "
Done "Lasting" is not a good column heading.
Done Ref 20 needs to be pp. not p.
Done Ref 27 needs to be p. not pp.
Done Ref 33 seems to repeat the year range.
Done Ref 35 needs to be pp. not p.
Done Ref 57 should be pp. 423–24 for consistency with others, not pp. 423–424.
Done Bibliography doesn't need page numbers because you're stating those in the references.

The Rambling Man (talk) 17:23, 17 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Have The Rambling Man and Chrishmt0423 been asked to revisit? Dabomb87 (talk) 23:01, 23 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - Top line of the infobox says "leaders of the Soviet Union" and the 2nd line says "Former Communist State" - this is very confusing since the Soviet Union was always a Communist state, and now Russia is a former Communist state. Smallbones (talk) 18:05, 3 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The Soviet Union is a former communist state, it doesn't exist anymore! This makes the USSR a former entity --TIAYN (talk) 23:41, 3 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved comments from Giants2008 (27 and counting) 16:21, 13 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Quick comments –

Done "In the Soviet Union's seventy years history...". At a minimum, make "years" singular. I'd rather see "seventy-year history", with the hyphen.
Done Typo in "General Secretary".
Done "Following Joseph Stalin's consolidation of power in 1920s...". This is beggin for "the" to be placed before the year range.

Fixed --TIAYN (talk) 05:26, 13 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Done Summary: "The dissmantling of the principal defining features of communism...". Maybe this is just British English, but I thought "dissmantling" only had one s.
Done In the table, move reference 53 after the punctuation, which would be better off as a period.
Done Add a period before reference 55.
Done Some of the short citations have periods at the end and some don't. It's best in situations like these to pick one style and be consistent with it. Giants2008 (27 and counting) 12:44, 11 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: The First Troika tenure ended on 26 June 1953 in one column yet in the next it lasted until Beria's death (23 December 1953), clarification is needed. --88.111.49.180 (talk) 17:28, 18 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Done --TIAYN (talk) 17:36, 18 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The name of the article should probably be without "List of". Nergaal (talk) 23:59, 18 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Why? --TIAYN (talk) 08:23, 19 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Support After looking deeply into the article, I didn't find anything I could beef.-- ♫Greatorangepumpkin♫ T 12:23, 1 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.