Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/List of countries by Human Development Index/archive2

The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was withdrawn by Trialpears via FACBot (talk) 00:25, 28 July 2020 (UTC) [1].[reply]

List of countries by Human Development Index

Featured list removal candidates/List of countries by Human Development Index/archive1

Nominator(s): ‑‑Trialpears (talk) 08:24, 2 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I've done some substantial work here and would really like to see this very important list with two million readers annually promoted to a featured list. I've never been through GA/FA/FL before so this is all new to me, but I will happily put in the necessary work to improve the article. It has improved a ton since 2009 when it was removed as an FL and the concerns at the very short FLRC have been addressed. Thanks! ‑‑Trialpears (talk) 08:24, 2 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Drive-by comment: FLs do not begin with "This is a list of..." – zmbro _(talk) 04:11, 4 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Fixed by Chidgk1 (Thanks!) ‑‑Trialpears (talk) 22:43, 5 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose The lede needs quite a bit of work work. Also, please see MOS:ACCESS --In actu (Guerillero) ^{Parlez Moi} 22:33, 4 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for the comments! I am not that good a prose writer and would appreciate some more specific suggestions for the lede, Chidgk1 made some improvements, but I'm sure it could be improved further. Regarding accessibility I have gone through the entirety of MOS:ACCESS and found some potential issues. First of all there is WP:RESOL which I believe it passes as it doesn't require any horizontal scrolling at 1024×768 and well smaller than that as well. There were some issues with MOS:COLOR such as low contrast colored text for the low/medium/high HDI labels which I have made black to avoid the issue. The maps could also have a more accessible color palette and I plan on changing the color palette to be better for color blind people using Color Brewer 2.0 this weekend. The tables follow WP:DTAB with the header scopes well defined and both tables being used for appropriate purposes. Images have alt text and captions as appropriate and the information in the maps are also available in the main table. I am currently also installing a screen reader to see how it works. If there was anything I missed please tell me and I will do my best to address it. ‑‑Trialpears (talk) 22:43, 5 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Chidgk1:

It seems the UNDP is saying that List of countries by inequality-adjusted HDI is more important? If so why not spend the time getting that featured instead of this, especially as it includes much of the HDI data too?

If you put the actual rank and actual HDI columns next to each other, and the change columns next to each other I guess that would reduce the sort symbols by 2 but would it be better?

Once you have it in good shape you could document how to best update it with next year's figures - either on the talk page or as hidden text in the article.

It would be interesting to have a note to say whether the regions and groups are fixed over time - for example if countries move in and out of the "least developed countries" group presumably the HDI for the group is not comparable over time.

Re accessibility when I changed the list below I could not see any way to automate making it accessible but just pasted in the necessary stuff.

I have edited the lede slightly but it probably needs more added - for example about countries going up and down the list, such as when a civil war ends does it typically go up quickly or slowly. Also if you have time could you point out my mistakes in Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/List of active coal fired power stations in Turkey/archive1 Chidgk1 (talk) 19:08, 5 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The inequality-adjusted HDI is probably the better index and in an ideal world would be used more then normal HDI, but I chose this list due to it's order of magnitude greater page views believing any improvements would benefit more people. I don't think changing the column order would be an improvement since it at least in my opinion would be slightly less intuitive. I don't have any particularly strong opinions on the matter though and would happily switch it if you think it's better. Regarding the Groups and regions there should definitely be some explanatory text there. I will deal with it tomorrow though. When all improvements are all done I will also make a pinned section on the talk page with instructions how to update the list, including some regular expressions I've made when improving the list. I'll return to you about the expansion of the lead, but mentioning some of the trends would be an improvement. Thanks for the comments and thanks for improving the lead! ‑‑Trialpears (talk) 22:43, 5 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

List of countries by inequality-adjusted HDI already provides both this original HDI and the admittedly better IHDI. While I agree with your focus on the more-seen article, these are duplicative and I think merging them would be appropriate for an even better FL. The table is not that big and more information in a two more columns would be appropriate. Reywas92^Talk 23:12, 5 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Reywas92 That's an interesting idea and if only two columns would be added that would probably be my preference, but in reality there should probably be more. I think IHDI rank change in IHDI rank, IHDI value, change in IHDI value and IHDI/HDI ratio should all be included in a FL class IHDI list with the only redundant columns being countries and HDI. That many added columns would result in an overwhelming amount of information being display and probably cause some confusion. Having two articles with one table each would make the information density a lot more manageable. I will probably improve List of countries by inequality-adjusted HDI as well after this review is over. If you want we could start a merger discussion however. ‑‑Trialpears (talk) 12:30, 6 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Actually at least for the current article, the "Rank Change from previous year" column should be deleted. Moving up or down one or two spots tells you nothing of use and can be easily inferred from the change in HDI. That column is pretty useless too though, only a few countries had a change of any substance. Now if this were change compared to maybe five or ten years ago it would be more meaningful, but the 2018-2019 difference isn't a valuable use of space for an FL. Perhaps only merge the IHDI and (longer) change in IHDI, but remove both rank change columns? While we're talking about merges though, List of African countries by Human Development Index, List of sovereign states in Europe by Human Development Index, List of Latin American countries by Human Development Index, List of countries in Asia and Oceania by Human Development Index (all in the see also) could easily just be redirected, I fail to see why the content is duplicated just to show subsets...more work to update... Reywas92^Talk 19:21, 6 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Reywas92 That's also fair. I think some sort of trend column is important but a one year change is perhaps too short of a time period. The human development report contains average annual HDI growth between 2010 and 2018 which could replace that column. A merged table would then have rank, country, average annual HDI growth, IHDI, IHDI rank, average annual HDI growth. Thinking more about the IHDI/HDI ratio probably shouldn't be included either as thats just how well a country supported on one of the dimensions assessed. If it was included the education, economy and health dimensions should be included as well. Having two rank columns (HDI and IHDI) would be a bit weird, but probably the best solution. The by region pages should probably be redirected as well, ping to creator JackintheBox. ‑‑Trialpears (talk) 15:31, 7 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I did not create any of the above pages, but did do extensive updates and developments for some of the by region pages about a year ago, and created choropleth maps for them. I personally think the by region pages could be retained as they allow for convenient comparison of HDI countries in different continents/regions, and judging by the view counts there are quite many people who read these articles to see countries' values and standings within their regions. I prefer these articles to be retained and included under 'See also' in List of countries by Human Development Index. JACKINTHEBOX • ^TALK 03:51, 8 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Just an update regarding my lack of activity. I have had a lot things happening the last month starting with the most academically intense period of my life with preparations for both my high school finals and several International Science Olympiads. I decided to greatly reduce my Wikipedia use to focus on these things for a while and then COVID-19 hit. It really changed my situation a lot with my exams and Olympiads being cancelled which I've been preparing for every day for several years. Seeing my work not mattering really made me lose my motivation to do things including on Wikipedia which has led to this delay. I'm still just as passionate about getting this to a featured list and have recommenced my efforts by working on replacing the yearly change with average annual HDI growth as recommended above. I hope to address all things brought up here in the coming days and will hopefully be as available as before from now on. ‑‑Trialpears (talk) 22:08, 21 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Me and Alice Hunter have had a discussion about what datamaps to use on the talk page. Feel free to join! ‑‑Trialpears (talk) 21:43, 8 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Comments: Out of all the countries, only the two Congo's are listed by a name other than their article title. This is inconsistent and I can't see a reason for it. The lead should mention how the list of countries examined is/was determined. Three maps in the lead seems a bit too much, and not WP:ACCESS friendly. Perhaps a section can be included below for Visualisations? Since this is the definitive article on the list, maybe it would be worth including as supplementary to the information on this existing table, the initial ranking/value from the 1990 list? Best, CMD (talk) 14:12, 9 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by Dudley

The first paragraph is unreferenced and partly duplicates the second. I suggest merging them.
I am dubious about the columnn for change in rank as the figures do not seem to add up. For example, three countries between 32 and 36 go up but none down.
The regions are very unsatisfactory. Europe and central Asia are merged and no North America and Australasia. Of course that is a fault in the source and you can do nothing about it.
Looks OK otherwise. Dudley Miles (talk) 17:58, 22 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Withdrawn

Very sorry to withdraw this but I'm simply not active enough anymore to continue this. I will hopefully return to this project in a few months after taking all your wonderful feedback into account. Thank you!

Closing note: This candidate has been withdrawn, but there may be a delay in bot processing of the close. Please see WP:FLC/ar, and leave the {{featured list candidates}} template in place on the talk page until the bot goes through. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 12:20, 27 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.