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The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by PresN 16:16, 14 July 2015 (UTC) [1].[reply]

List of accolades received by Barfi!

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List of accolades received by Barfi! (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

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Nominator(s): —Prashant 14:41, 4 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I am nominating this for featured list because I feel the list meets FL criteria. This article provides a listing of the notable awards and nominations received by the 2012 Indian romantic comedy-drama film Barfi!. I hope to receive constructive comments for the same.—Prashant 14:41, 4 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Pavanjandhyala I'm a non-native English speaker. Hence, i request the nominator to keep the fact in mind that these aren't the only possible issues and a better editor may also contradict my views. To the best of my knowledge, i could spot these issues. Please rectify them, or give a reasonable explanation here.

  • The film stars Ranbir Kapoor, Priyanka Chopra, and Ileana D'Cruz in the lead roles, with Saurabh Shukla, Ashish Vidyarthi, and Roopa Ganguly in supporting roles — The film features Ranbir Kapoor, Priyanka Chopra and Ileana D'Cruz in the lead roles, with Saurabh Shukla, Ashish Vidyarthi and Roopa Ganguly playing supporting roles.
  • Did Basu "co-wrote" the film's script with his wife Tani?
  • Any film's narrative in general either tells or narrates the lives of the protagonists. Barfi in particular. Give it a thought!
  • Is Barfi the only India's official entry for the Best Foreign Language Film at the 85th Academy Awards? I mean, was there any other one too?
  • What does mostly from recognition of the film itself mean? Can you please explain?
  • Barfi! received nine nominations, and swept eight awards — more formal usage of terms is encouraged.
  • Note c and d require references.
  • Is reference number five reliable?
  • Make sure that all the links in the reference are not dead.

Yours sincerely, Pavanjandhyala (talk) 16:29, 7 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Done. Well, every year there is only one official selection for the Oscars. The reference number five is very much reliable and thanks for your comments.—Prashant 15:29, 8 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I have to agree with Pavanjandhyala. What makes Business of Cinema a "very much reliable" source? -- FrankBoy CHITCHAT 15:36, 8 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
We have been using this in almost every FAs.—Prashant 16:45, 8 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Namely? -- FrankBoy CHITCHAT 16:55, 8 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
@FrB.TG: and @Pavanjandhyala:: Shah Rukh Khan (Reference number 133), List of awards and nominations received by Priyanka Chopra (Reference number 64), and many more. Do I need to prove more?—Prashant 14:41, 9 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Prashant!, FL exemplifies one of the best works on Wikipedia and that's why we ask you to prove its reliability. Well, reference number 6 and 28 are dead. What about them? Pavanjandhyala (talk) 11:52, 10 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I have checked and found that reference number 28 is working properly. And, fixed the reference number 6.—Prashant 12:18, 10 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
This tells a different story however! Pavanjandhyala (talk) 12:21, 10 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

That was reference number 29. Fixed it.—Prashant 12:38, 10 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

There are four green links there. Turn them white by archieving them, just like reference number 6. Pavanjandhyala (talk) 13:53, 10 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Fixed all the references.—Prashant 16:46, 10 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
To the best of my knowledge, i find this list eligible for a Support now as FrB.TG is looking after the prose, where i am weak being a non-native English speaker. Pavanjandhyala (talk) 16:23, 11 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from FrB.TG

Resolved comments from FrankBoy (FrB.TG)
  • In the first line, pipe Indian to Cinema of India.
  • WP:ALT text needed for the image.
  • "received several awards and nominations for their performance" => "for their performances"
  • "written-directed by Anurag Basu" => "written and directed by Anurag Basu".
  • "Pritam composed the musical" => "Pritam composed the music".
  • Convert crore to million/billion per MOS:COMMONALITY.
  • "and won seven awards, including the Best FilmBest Film"?
  • Not sure of the credibility of The Times of India Film Awards as it is just basically an internet poll. Even if it is notable enough, it does not need to be included in the lead.
  • The same for ETC Bollywood Business Awards.
  • You need not link the categories of the BIG Star Entertainment Awards as they are redirected to the parent article.
  • Under the award column it's 58th Filmfare Awards while others are simply the awards (excluding their ceremonies). Be consistent.
  • The same for Zee Cine Awards 2013.
  • Why isn't Debajit Changmai sorted by his/her last name?
  • Ref. 6 is dead.
  • CNN-IBN needs to be linked on its first instance.
  • In ref. 10 and 11, link Apsara Awards to Star Guild Awards. It's not known as simply "Apsara Awards".
  • Pipe Indiatimes to Times Internet, and it does not need to be in italics. -- FrankBoy CHITCHAT 10:57, 10 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Done. TOI Awards, actually are not polls but awards. If you can see even Screen Awards decides Popular categories by voting. And, ETC Bollywood Awards are presented by the ETC Network for the business of the films.—Prashant 13:02, 10 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
TOI Awards are non-notable awards from a notable parent company. -- FrankBoy CHITCHAT 14:53, 10 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Please don't start a new controversy for awards. The awards which were considered non-notable were already removed after a discussion. So, please. —Prashant 15:51, 10 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I am not going to comment on it anymore as the editor does not want a "new controversy for awards". -- FrankBoy CHITCHAT 16:10, 10 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • All of the Apsara categories are redirected link.
  • "Set between 1972-2012" => "Set between 1972 and 2012".
  • "grossing ₹1.75 billion (US$28 million) at the box office.|" - What is | for?
  • The first and second sentence of the second paragraph can be merged with the omission of "was a major commercial success" as it's not necessary here.
  • How many awards (total) has the film won?
  • "received 23 nominations at the 19th Screen Awards, winning nine, including" - nine what? You mean "awards"?
  • "At the 14th IIFA Awards, it won 14, out of 21 nominations" - ditto.
  • There is no source for the main categories of IIFA.
  • Ref 19. only confirms the win of Chopra, and not Basu.
  • Ref 21. is not needed as the film has won no awards at the Mirchi Music Awards ceremony.
  • Ref 25. does not even relate this page. Why is that here?
  • None of the ref confirms that the film won Best Cinematography at the Screen Awards.
  • Winners of Zee Cine seem to be verified by refs but not all i.e. Best Production Design. -- FrankBoy CHITCHAT 14:53, 10 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Done. Thanks!—Prashant 16:46, 10 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Are you sure that all are done? -- FrankBoy CHITCHAT 18:35, 10 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Are you sure all of the actors are "looking towards the camera"?
  • None of the IIFA source says that Saurabh Shukla was nominated for the Best Supporting Actor award.
  • In the Mirchi Music Awards' Results there is an endnote, actually there is no endnote, but just "[IV]" - what does that mean?
  • Now that you've added the total wins (and also nominations), a tally must be added to represent the number of nominations and awards that the film received. -- FrankBoy CHITCHAT 21:26, 10 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Done. Except for the ALT as all three of them are looking in three different directions. Can you suggest something for it?—Prashant 08:27, 11 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
You do not need to particularly describe their eyes' directions. Something like "A photograph of three people at an event for the film Barfi!". The film has not won 70 awards. As per my counting, it is 68. -- FrankBoy CHITCHAT 09:39, 11 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Done. Sorry for the counting mistake. Thanks! for your detailed review. I appreciate it.—Prashant 10:51, 11 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Because the film was a major commercial success. It was the first time that a film like this collected more than hundred crore. So its fine. And, you want that I make another sentence saying the film was released on this date?—Prashant 05:05, 12 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
FYI I asked you to "merge" (combine) those two sentences if you remove that success thing. I didn't ask you to "make" another sentence or such. -- FrankBoy CHITCHAT 10:01, 12 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

But, that can stay. See Kaminey fl. I mean this not an issue, but a choice.—Prashant 11:33, 12 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I haven't asked you to remove that. Given the above explanation ("collected more than..."), I think it can stay. Anyways I may post some more comments (if any). -- FrankBoy CHITCHAT 13:32, 12 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Kailash I support this FLC as I find no obvious improvement needed in prose.However, the links may be archived to prevent link rotting. Kailash29792 (talk) 05:21, 12 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Ssven2 Support — Looks pretty comprehensive. Nice work on this, Prashant. — Ssven2 Speak 2 me 10:22, 12 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from SNUGGUMS

Resolved comments from Seattle (talk) 08:04, 17 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Comments
What's that?—Prashant 05:05, 14 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
@Prashant!: Do it this way. OR if you're asking the purpose behind that, you've got to read the template. -- FrankBoy CHITCHAT 22:16, 14 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I have added the template per user's request. -- FrankBoy CHITCHAT 09:35, 15 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Mirchi Music Awards Hindi 2012 nominations" appears as a dead link for me
It is very much working.—Prashant 05:03, 14 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Basu co-wrote the film ... Pritam composed the music ... Barfi! was edited by Akiv Ali dull prose
  • Pritam composed the music Pritam redirects to Pritam Chakraborty; can you use his proper name?
  • The film was a major commercial success ... The film was selected ... The film has received repetitive prose
  • At the 58th Filmfare Awards, Barfi! received most nominations with 13 of what?
  • At the 58th Filmfare Awards, Barfi! received most nominations with 13 needs a "the" before "13"
  • Is there a date for the "Okinawa International Movie Festival"?
Done. Also, That is the official Youtube Channel of the Star Guild Awards.—Prashant 05:03, 14 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
It's not verified; how do you know it's not a massive copyright violation? The prose also reads stiltedly; do you think you could combine a few sentences? Seattle (talk) 06:53, 15 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Replaced that source with another one. Do you have any suggestion about which sentence to merge?—Prashant 11:15, 15 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks. The structure reads much better than it did– the only thing I would change would be Barfi! has received various awards and nominations in categories, with praise for its direction, the cast's performance, cinematography, screenplay, musical score, costume and production design. The film has won 68 awards. → Barfi! has received various awards and nominations in categories, with praise for its direction, the cast's performance, cinematography, screenplay, musical score, costume and production design; in total, the film has won 68 awards. Seattle (talk) 18:14, 16 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Done. Thanks for your inputs.—Prashant 04:31, 17 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose – I see a problem with the tone of the article. I know this is an accolades list, but you can still try to make it neutral. Though the film was a critical success during release, it received sharp criticism when it failed to get a nomination at the Academy Awards. Given that you've included stuff about the same, I think the reasons could well be added. —Vensatry (ping) 21:43, 13 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you Vensatry for the oppose. But, please try to tell me an exact reason because this is an accolades list and not the article. I think that is for the article. So, you think I should remove the official entry thing from the list?—Prashant 15:42, 14 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I think my reason was quite "exact". "because this is an accolades list and not the article. I think that is for the article" – You mean to say lists can bypass WP:NPOV. I suggest you please reread the criteria before arriving at a conclusion like this. —Vensatry (ping) 08:10, 18 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Because I feel every film from India is criticised for not getting nominated for the Oscars! And, I havent seen a single accolades page talking bout their criticisms. Do they? I have followed a pattern similar to lists and not articles.—Prashant 08:22, 18 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I don't know about other lists, neutrality is a prime requirement for all articles. As for the Oscars, yes I do agree most of the films receive criticism, but in the case of Barfi, the criticism was very sharp right after it was submitted to the Academy. I see no point in mentioning that in the lede since that can neither be considered an award nor a nomination. But then, if you wish to retain it, the criticism too can be added to maintain WP:NPOV. —Vensatry (ping) 19:39, 18 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Removed.—Prashant 11:09, 19 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Additional comments

  • Per WP:ALT, alt text should identify the names of people in these types of lists. Their appearance or posture doesn't really matter.
  • "It was co-written by Basu with his wife Tani," - The source doesn't mention anything about his wife and from our article's infobox I see that she is credited (jointly) only with the film's story. However, I don't see that claim made anywhere else in the article (in words).
  • "Pritam Chakraborty composed the film's musical and background score while Akiv Ali edited Barfi!, with the cinematography provided by Ravi Varman" - It's better to move the name of the film (Barfi!) to the beginning of the sentence because it gives the reader an impression that we are talking about two different films.
  • "in total, the film has won 68 awards." - Needs "as of ..."
  • Since you are sure that the film has won 36 awards, why don't you include a table in the infobox mentioning the total number of wins and nominations? Many of the existing FLs seem to follow that pattern.
Its not a must in all the lists and all Indian films list follows the same pattern.—Prashant 05:29, 30 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Do Critics' Choice awards have nominees?
  • The nominees/recipients of Best Film awards are the producers themselves. You seem to have included the name of the film in the table which is technically incorrect.
Same as above explanation.—Prashant 05:29, 30 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • As Cowlibob says, the Times of India Film Awards are not notable. They are just internet polls.
It like you haven't seen the rest winners, which includes Jury Awards. It follows the pattern of all Indian awards like Filmfare, IIFA, Zee Cine and the rest. Popular awards are decided by votes and rest by Jury.—Prashant 05:29, 30 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • "including the Best Film and Best Director" is repeated three times in the last three sentences.

—Vensatry (ping) 15:36, 24 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Done with the rest.—Prashant 05:29, 30 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Strong support excellent piece of work. nicely written neutral point work. Daan0001 (talk) 07:59, 14 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your exhaustive review. Care to explain how well the article appeals neutral to you? —Vensatry (ping) 08:38, 14 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
You mean it sarcastically. Because I think Daan0001 always supports Prashant, regardless of the situation. Kailash29792 (talk) 09:00, 14 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Ha, that clearly shows how good he is as a reviewer! —Vensatry (ping) 11:04, 14 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Comments wow, so many supports!

Well, another nomination of mine also got many supports. Hehe.—Prashant 11:09, 19 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • "features" vs "incorporated" - pick a tense and stick with it.
  • No need to overlink rupee.
  • Second paragraph reads really clunkily, like a series of almost unrelated factoids.
  • "nominations in categories" is "in categories" really necessary?
  • 13 ... seven, etc... - see MOS:NUM.
Well, someone had told me that I should use numbers after 9. —Prashant 11:09, 19 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
See WP:NUMNOTES —Vensatry (ping) 06:57, 23 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Done.—Prashant 10:46, 23 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • If ETC Bollywood Business Awards are notable, why isn't there an article? At least it should be red-linked.
Yes, these awards are notable, linked one of them to its existing article, created another and red-linked the last one.—Prashant 11:09, 19 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Same comment applies to the Lion Gold Awards and the South African Indian Film and Television Awards.

The Rambling Man (talk) 08:10, 19 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Done.—Prashant 11:09, 19 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by Cowlibob

[edit]
  • Suggested rephrase "The screenplay which incorporates a nonlinear narrative was co-written by Basu with his wife Tani." Also Tani Basu contributing to the screenplay is not mentioned in the source.
  • For critical acclaim you can replace the Business of Cinema with one from NDTV [[2]]. Just because it has been used a few times in featured content which often have 100s of references doesn't mean it's reliable, if it was used extensively to verify key information then there could be something to talk about, in any case refs should be able to stand on their own.
  • What makes South African Indian Television and Film Awards notable for inclusion here when it doesn't have an article of its own?
  • Times of India Awards also doesn't have its own page, I'm just redirected to the Times of India page. The awards themselves are determined by an internet poll which we had consensus to exclude. I see another user mentioned this above but the nominator just told him to stop discussing it without a valid rationale which is completely inappropriate behaviour. Nominators should show respect for the reviewers and not dismiss their comments as "Please don't start a new controversy for awards."
  • As table is sortable wikilink every entry wherever possible. Check the table for this, and also if we have articles for any of the currently unlinked nominees.

Cowlibob (talk) 10:47, 24 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Done. And, for the TOI awards, they are decided by voting (Popular awards) much like Zee Cine, IIFA and Filmfare. But, there are also Jury awards which is decided by the Jury. As for its page on wikipedia, anyone can create it, when one have time.—Prashant 05:29, 30 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Tani Basu is not mentioned in the source that you've sourced, please add a source that she co-wrote it or that's unsourced.
  • I'm not suggesting that just because there's no article for South African Awards means not to include it. Do the awards ceremony get substantive coverage from secondary source (not simply a listing of who won the award) per WP:GNG so that they can be redlinked per WP:REDLINK?
  • In regards to the TOI awards, they are internet polls which are different from ones you've described. Internet polls such as this have ben suggested to be excluded by three reviewers at this FLC as well as this RFC Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Film/Indian_cinema_task_force#Bollywood_Hungama_Surfers.27_Choice_Awards.
Cowlibob (talk) 19:08, 1 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, South African....Awards received a substantial media coverage and so does TOI Awards. Toi is not an internet poll like Bollywood Hungama surfers Choice. TOI organised a function in Toronto, funded by Canadian government. It also had a jury unlike Polls.—Prashant 04:50, 2 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Atleast fix the unsourced info of Tani Basu contributing to the screenplay. Cowlibob (talk) 10:43, 3 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I had provided a source (Apsara Awards nominations list) as she received nominations (and won at other ceremonies) for both story and screenplay. I hope it's clear now.—Prashant 18:27, 3 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for adding source. We can just sort this dispute by asking a delegate for their input.Cowlibob (talk) 13:22, 9 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@Crisco 1492 and PresN: We're at an impasse here. There is disagreement on whether to include awards/nominations derived from an internet poll. The Times of India Film Awards which started in 2013 have split awards with some jury led and others in the popular category voted on via an internet poll, both were presented at a ceremony. There is consensus not to include awards/nominations derived from internet polls which I showed above however the nominator does not want to remove them as similar "popular" awards exist for others which are included in lists but are determined by telephone voting, online, and variety of other methods to get the result. I don't mind being wrong as long as we have a result either way. Cowlibob (talk) 13:22, 9 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

  • Not commenting as a delegate here, but the rule of thumb is that we only include awards etc which are notable enough to have their own articles. This doesn't and personally I'd take it out. - SchroCat (talk) 14:14, 9 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
TOI is not a poll. Infact it had substantial media coverage, given by Times of India and is similar to Filmfare, Zee Cine and IIFA. If that is the case we will have to remove Screen Award for Best Actor and Actress Popular from wikiledia because they are 100% decided by polls. That's not all we have to remove all bollywood awards then. Only NFA will be here. Plus, Teen Choice Awards and other American awards are also polls but, I dobt see much problem there why?—Prashant 14:37, 9 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I second SchroCat's opinion. Vensatry and I also objected this; however, I dismissed the issue thinking that it might be notable. Now that there is consensus not to include this, it should be removed for at least if you want to see it as a featured list. -- FrankBoy CHITCHAT 21:16, 9 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delegate note: This list is currently at 6 supports; that said, at least 3 of them appear to have been given after only a cursory review at best, given that there are substantive comments after them. That'd be fine(ish), but Vensatry has an oppose that seems to have been largely ignored- I haven't looked into the tone of the list yet, but I'd like to see either you two come to an agreement or an impasse, not just ignoring the issue, before I'd be willing to look past an oppose to promote. I don't know enough about Indian film awards to say whether the TOI awards are notable/popular enough to overcome the half-online poll nature of them- but given that the idea of only jurying half of the categories but treating the polled ones the same instead of having a "reader's choice" category or something is frankly bizarre, I'd likely say that award should be dropped from the list. I'm not swayed by the argument that it had "substantial media coverage"- from the newspaper that awards it. Does anyone else pay a lot of attention to it besides the TOI? Really, what I'd like to see here to feel comfortable promoting is some actual persuasive arguments as to why you disagree with the other editors/reviewers and why you are correct, not just the equivalent of "no" and some handwaving about having to delete swathes of articles based on the consensus that the TOI award should not be in featured accolades lists. --PresN 04:14, 13 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@PresN: Vensatry has striked his oppose. FYI, TOI Awards ceremony was reported by other publications too.—Prashant 19:38, 13 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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