Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/List of Sega CD games/archive1

The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by SchroCat 14:35, 15 January 2014 [1].

List of Sega CD games

Featured list candidates/List of Sega CD games/archive1

Nominator(s): Red Phoenix ^{build the future...}_{remember the past...} 01:45, 24 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Spurred on by the successful promotion of List of Sega 32X games a few months ago, I've taken on another Sega Genesis add-on games list as I push forward for a Sega fourth-generation featured topic. This one was much harder, as the Sega CD games library is at least five times as large as the 32X library, and because of the large number of Japanese-only releases, doing an individual game page for each item on this list would be next to impossible. Thankfully, in addition to Allgame's awesome list of North American and PAL releases, Sega of Japan has a pair of master lists (in Japanese, no less) for this console that made sourcing this list possible. With Sega CD now a GA, having an accompanying FL of its games would be an excellent feat, and during the course of this candidacy, of which I believe the list is in excellent condition and ready for promotion after all of my hard work into it, I'll do whatever it takes to make that happen. Red Phoenix ^{build the future...}_{remember the past...} 01:45, 24 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by LightLowemon

Definitely needs a link to Sega CD somewhere in there
- Resolved. Red Phoenix ^{build the future...}_{remember the past...} 02:02, 25 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
...released in Europe and other regions... - how about released in PAL regions
The first paragraph is almost an exact cut and paste of the lead from the Sega CD article, not sure if there are any rules against this though, but it seems to me that it's a bit cheap, and the information doesn't actually discuss the games as much as the unit. In theory while they should be similar, I don't think they should be the exact same.
- A large part of that would be because I wrote the lead to Sega CD, and decided to build this list off of that for consistency. If there are specific changes to be recommended, I will implement them, but I believe it's important to introduce the topic of what the Sega CD is as a unit in order to understand more about its game library and the topic of this list. It's also similar to what I've done in List of Sega 32X games, another FL. Red Phoenix ^{build the future...}_{remember the past...} 02:02, 25 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
In early 1991, Sega announced the Mega-CD for release in Japan in late 1991, North America (as the Sega CD) in 1992, and in Europe in 1993. You've already mentioned this not two sentences earlier.
- Oops... resolved. Red Phoenix ^{build the future...}_{remember the past...} 02:02, 25 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Sega of Japan, partnering with JVC... I don't think this whole sentence is really necessary, as it relates solely to the console and not the games.
- It relates to the console, but would not a short understanding of the console be helpful to understanding this list? I don't really see this as a negative, personally, but if consensus disagrees, I'll remove it. Red Phoenix ^{build the future...}_{remember the past...} 02:02, 25 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
... the expansion only sold as many as 2.7 million units worldwide[2] and was often criticized for its severe hardware limitations.[3] - Reference 3 says it sold 6 million and nothing about its hardware limitations, and in fact few references even talk about the severe hardware limitations, stating the issue was in the game library and the system didn't add anything to the user experience, this may have been due to the hardware limitations, but no where says that. One reference even complements it as "solid tech", the worst I could find was comments on poor FMV handling and colour limitations.
- Reference 3's sales number of 6 million has been shown systematically to be an inaccurate number. We've discussed the numbers of several sales figure postings for Sega's 16-bit era at Talk:Sega Genesis, and in particular I've worked with Indrian on ensuring that these numbers are accurately sourced. In this case, the existence of a 2.7 million number by the end of 1994, sourced to Sega itself by way of Man!ac Magazine, a German publication, shows that the GamePro number cannot be accurate. I'll remove the bit on the "hardware limitations", it's cited in some other material but perhaps console criticism is too much console criticism to maintain a focused list lead. Red Phoenix ^{build the future...}_{remember the past...} 02:02, 25 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Need a link to the 32X in the second paragraph.
- Resolved. Red Phoenix ^{build the future...}_{remember the past...} 02:02, 25 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Ecco The Dolphin -> Ecco the Dolphin
- Resolved. Red Phoenix ^{build the future...}_{remember the past...} 02:02, 25 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Reference for criticising the lack of depth of game library.
- Again, accidental miss, but I thought it was linked. IGN article will be linked here. Red Phoenix ^{build the future...}_{remember the past...} 02:02, 25 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Like the first paragraph the second and third are basically word for word the Sega CD section under Game Library, except for The Sega CD contains a large library of over 140 titles.
- See my reasoning above about the lead; I pretty much rewrote the entire Sega CD article a while ago before it attained GA status. If specific changes need to be made, I can make them as need be.
Personally, I don't find the table very sort friendly as far as regions go, I know it's a similar style as to the other featured lists, but I'd rather something similar to List of PlayStation 3 games where each region had its own sorting. At the moment if I wanted to look for games in Japan, I have games that were released in Japan only, scroll down to NA JP, scroll down further to NA PAL JP and if there were any that were PAL JP only I'd have to scroll down again.--Lightlowemon (talk) 06:11, 24 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- Interesting suggestion. I had not had to do that with List of Sega 32X games, but that was a much shorter list. I'll look into options for this. Red Phoenix ^{build the future...}_{remember the past...} 02:02, 25 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the review, Lightlowemon. I'm sure you're helping to make this a stronger list through such feedback. Red Phoenix ^{build the future...}_{remember the past...} 02:02, 25 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Personally, I'm not ready to give a vote until other editors weigh in, I'm only a new voter so I'd like to see what others think about the article, and specifically the lead. --Lightlowemon (talk) 01:14, 1 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

That's fair enough. I'm still always glad to have some honest feedback, and could always use more. Red Phoenix ^{build the future...}_{remember the past...} 01:30, 1 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Support~~Comments~~

I would also like to see the three regions broken out into their own columns, kind of like List of Square Enix mobile games (I know that list is a bit shorter) - the way it is now, the sorting on the regions column doesn't really work, because you can't sort by all games released in NA, since ones where it was also released in JP don't sort with ones that weren't.

Now that's a pretty neat way to do it; I very much like that format. It may take a little while; there are over 200 entries to correct for that, but I can make that happen. Red Phoenix ^{build the future...}_{remember the past...} 05:25, 5 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Done - Complete, using the example you provided. Thanks Red Phoenix ^{build the future...}_{remember the past...} 17:16, 5 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

" the expansion only sold as many as 2.7 million units worldwide" - "as many as" sounds weird to me here, since it's usually used in a positive way but it's used negatively here. Maybe "up to 2.7" or "a maximum of 2.7" or "at most 2.7" instead?

Done - It actually sold 2.7 million by the end of 1994, so I've rephrased it as such and with a neutral tone. Red Phoenix ^{build the future...}_{remember the past...} 05:25, 5 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

"were a number of FMV games" - should be Full Motion Video (FMV) games the first time you use it, or perhaps just use and link Interactive movie instead.

Done - Red Phoenix ^{build the future...}_{remember the past...} 05:25, 5 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The links to compact disc|audio CDs and central processing unit in the lead are redirecting.

Done - Red Phoenix ^{build the future...}_{remember the past...} 05:25, 5 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

A bunch of game titles/developers are redirecting; while some seem intentional, others don't (like Bari-arm) so check them.

Curious, but not surprising. Is there a bot that can do this upon request? I can weed it all out if need be, but I would think there'd be an automated bot that could make such corrections. Red Phoenix ^{build the future...}_{remember the past...} 05:25, 5 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I went through and did the games manually. Developers would take some time. Red Phoenix ^{build the future...}_{remember the past...} 17:16, 5 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

This script might help you out for this, colour codes them. --Lightlowemon (talk) 05:52, 6 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I should've figured that in some way, Anomie would inadvertently help me out again on another Sega article. Thanks, Lightlowemon. I'm sure that'll be a very helpful too, especially when I move on to List of Sega Genesis games. Over 900 titles there... yikes. Red Phoenix ^{build the future...}_{remember the past...} 02:27, 7 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Done - Thanks, that made correcting those redirects surprisingly easy. Red Phoenix ^{build the future...}_{remember the past...} 02:50, 7 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Can you get any more details on reference 2, like ISSN or author?

Most I've really got is that it's a staff article and that it's in German; I'll see if I can throw some of that in. In terms of evaluating it for reliability, Man!ac is a past labeling of M! Games, an active video game publication in Germany. Red Phoenix ^{build the future...}_{remember the past...} 05:25, 5 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Consider archiving your references via web.archive.org or webcitation.org- while the sites themselves are unlikely to disappear completely, there's nothing stopping them from changing information and messing up the article- GameSpot reformatted all their video game pages/links just last month without leaving behind redirects or keeping all the information, and there's nothing stopping IGN/1UP.com from doing the same.

Thanks, I'll consider it. I know Sega's changed their sites around a little bit, so it wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility they might. I'll probably work on this last, though, just so I can focus on the important ones to this FAC first, and then do the archiving.

--Pres N 20:35, 4 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Looks good, switching to support. Minor redirects and unarchived refs aren't criteria that would block my support. One follow-up point though- now that it's just "2.7 million units as of the end of 1994", the "While" at the beginning of the sentence doesn't make much sense- you're not contrasting that it was known for a couple games with the amount it sold, you're just presenting two facts. --Pres N 19:33, 5 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Fixed. Red Phoenix ^{build the future...}_{remember the past...} 20:03, 5 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I'll weigh in on this during this weekend.--SexyKick 17:19, 3 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with the first reviewer that the lead probably discusses the console itself at length a bit more than I'd like. Why do I need to know that Sega of Japan didn't share with Sega of America during the development?
- Removed. Red Phoenix ^{build the future...}_{remember the past...} 05:10, 8 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I don't see a total game count anywhere. Ideally I'd like a total count for all three regions as well as the world.
- Personally I disagree with individual regions as being excessive, but I don't see anything wrong with a WP:CALC addition of a total number of releases. I'll see if I can slip that in. Red Phoenix ^{build the future...}_{remember the past...} 05:10, 8 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
The 32 colors comment isn't marked to be incorrect like in the Sega CD article.
- Removed. Red Phoenix ^{build the future...}_{remember the past...} 05:10, 8 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Perhaps a * could be placed next to games that also came out on the Sega Genesis? I'm not sure on this one.
- Might be excessive in my opinion; this is, after all, a list of Sega CD titles, and even the Genesis "ports" had differences from their counterparts. We don't list console releases on one system that also were released on a specific other (note: yes, I'm aware the Sega CD is an add-on and not a stand-alone console). Red Phoenix ^{build the future...}_{remember the past...} 05:10, 8 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Reference review since there aren't a ton of these, I went through their formatting and found it to be consistent. I've read through the entirety of most of them, and skimmed the one or two I hadn't read. I find all referenced information accurately cross checks. Very good.--SexyKick 10:25, 6 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, SexyKick. Appreciate your feedback, as always. Red Phoenix ^{build the future...}_{remember the past...} 05:10, 8 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

SupportYou're very welcome, and I somewhat agree with the other things potentially being excessive. They were just the things I felt interested in that weren't there. Since the 32X ports of Sega CD games were noted, I thought it might be nice if I could know which got improvements. I really like the improvements in 3 Ninjas, and Ecco the Dolphin, but they blow me away in Batman Returns. So I like seeking out the titles that were on both, but I do see the potential excessiveness.--SexyKick 05:16, 8 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

There's one slight difference between this and 32X, and that's that the 32X ports required the Sega CD as well and weren't just ports outright. So, in essence, those listed there were 32X and CD games combined into one. Red Phoenix ^{build the future...}_{remember the past...} 05:23, 8 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Comments (please note that I am not reviewing in my capacity as delegate)

Why is Sega CD bolded? Last I checked, that was deprecated for lists

Because I'm apparently quite behind the times. It has been removed. Red Phoenix ^{build the future...}_{remember the past...} 05:08, 15 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Overlinking: Japan, North America, etc.

Rectified. Red Phoenix ^{build the future...}_{remember the past...} 05:08, 15 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Otherwise quite solid. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 03:31, 15 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Support on prose. Good job! — Crisco 1492 (talk) 05:16, 15 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Closing note: This candidate has been promoted, but there may be a delay in bot processing of the close. Please see WP:FLC/ar, and leave the {{featured list candidates}} template in place on the talk page until the bot goes through. - SchroCat (talk) 14:44, 15 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.