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The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by Giants2008 21:10, 12 March 2012 [1].

List of Ohio class submarines

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List of Ohio class submarines (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

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Nominator(s): --Sp33dyphil ©hatontributions 03:53, 4 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I am nominating this for featured list because... the list has recently undergone a very successful A-class review which saw its promotion only seven days since its creation. I think the list is ready for the next step. --Sp33dyphil ©hatontributions 03:53, 4 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved comments from The Rambling Man (talk) 20:57, 8 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Comments
  • Lead image could actually be at the top of the lead, and larger (I think MOS says we can go up 300px or so for a lead image).
  • "is currently" needs a timeframe (like "as of February 2012").
  • Five paras in a lead of a list so brief is probably three too many.
  • Should displacement be a part of the list, sounds appropriate...
  • Also maybe range/armament etc? More interesting than Hull number to fair.
  • I'm afraid that won't help, as the lead has mentioned the armaments of the SSBNs and SSGNs. As for the range, since the Ohio boats are nuclear, they can travel indefinitely until their next refueling of nuclear reactors (I've included the info about the 42-year operational life and the 2-year mid-life refueling ✔) --Sp33dyphil ©hatontributions 07:37, 7 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • USS Ohio is overlinked in the lead.
  • Perhaps consider expanding what SMART I means, it may not be clear to everyone.
  • Use {{dagger}} for screen readers rather than just the plain symbol.
  • Ref col doesn't need to be sortable.
  • Colours are a little garish, perhaps just colour the cell with the boat's name?
  • The diagram of the layout of an Ohio-class sub seems out of place here. It's interesting, but it's kind-of crammed in under the list of the subs and not explained or really referred to anywhere.

The Rambling Man (talk) 18:58, 6 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose just in case. I haven't seen this new version and while it's certainly an improvement, it brings with it its own issues.

  • No need to have "picture" sortable.
  • Table needs row and col scopes per MOS:DTT.
  • What's the rationale behind the sorting of the Hull number and Weapons columns?
  • Is it Navy.mil or Navy.mil?
  • "the U.S. Navy is currently undertaking" when is "currently"?

The Rambling Man (talk) 21:50, 3 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]


  • Regretful oppose per WP:FLC 3b. I don't believe this list meets the requirements for being a stand-alone list as it could easily be integrated as an embedded list in the article Ohio class submarine. Currently the article Ohio class submarine is only 1340 words, while the length of the prose in this list is 583 words. Much of the text in the list, as well as the list itself, would fit nicely within the main Ohio class article. In fact, there is already a simpler version of the list in the Boats of the class section. I recommend merging the list and article and redirecting this page to the main class article; when cleaned up, the main class article can be nominated at WP:FAC. –Grondemar 01:01, 9 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • C and D class destroyer is the only example of a decently developed article on a large class of ships (14 in total) I can think of. It has a table with the relevant data like this list, followed by several paragraphs that sum up the activities of the ships. I am really on the fence about whether it should be a stand-alone list or not. I doubt these boats have all that interesting service histories, so I don't think it would be overkill to do something like the C and D class example. Removing the photos from the table would go a long way to shrink the table, making it more manageable if it is merged in. Parsecboy (talk) 21:06, 16 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • After looking at the revised list with the pictures of the individual boats embedded in the list, I'm willing to strike my original oppose as I believe that in this format it can and should stand alone from the main class article. I will review the list further before deciding whether to support. –Grondemar 01:03, 4 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Just a few things:
    • "is currently, as of February 2012," - "currently" can be removed per WP:DATED.
    • As those are American submarines, why not convert to mdy format?
  • Support, pending resolution of Grondemar's concerns above Comments
    • Not sure why this wasn't brought up earlier, but the list needs to differentiate between the SSBNs and the SSGNs.
  • There are only four SSGNs, so I thought it would be better to merge both types of boats. Also, the main differences between the two have been outlined in the intro -- I wouldn't know what extra information to add if I was to split the SSGNs off. --Sp33dyphil ©hatontributions 01:24, 12 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • You don't need to split anything off. Technically, the SSBN/SSGN is part of the hull number and should be included in that column. All you need is a note explaining the difference between the two. Parsecboy (talk) 02:34, 12 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Yeah, I think that should be in the table. You might consider replacing the unit identification code column with the weapon suite - I don't know what real value the UIC is to the average reader, but I think many would be interested in what weapons the boats carry. Parsecboy (talk) 12:57, 15 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    • Also, why are there redundant sorting methods (i.e., color coding and symbols?)
  • See below.

All of my concerns have been addressed. Parsecboy (talk) 22:14, 1 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Comments –

  • Avoid bold links like the one in the intro, per the MoS.
  • In the drawing's caption, is the note for item 11 supposed to have a 1 at the end, like the Auxiliary machine room no. 2 a bit later? Giants2008 (Talk) 19:17, 3 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from –Grondemar 23:27, 8 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Comments from –Grondemar:
  • "Named after its lead boat, the Ohio class of nuclear-powered submarines is, as of March 2012, in service with its sole operator, the United States Navy." ✔
  • It's a little confusing to say that the Trident missiles were designed concurrently with the Ohio-class, and then mention that the missiles first served on a different class of submarine. Perhaps the mention of the first submarine each missile served on is excessive detail and could be cut?
  • I think it's acceptable to have a weapon (the Trident) being developed alongside another (the Ohio class) but entering service with an older one (the Benjamin Franklin class), especially since development of the Ohio class lagged behind for a few years. At the same time, it's not right to make the reader incorrectly assume that the missile entered service with the Ohio class. --Sp33dyphil ©hatontributions 03:16, 4 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • "In 1994, a study called the Nuclear Posture Review determined that, of the 18 Ohio SSBNs the U.S. Navy would be operating in total, 14 would be sufficient for the strategic needs of the U.S. " "A study called the" seems excessively wordy, as does "the U.S. Navy would be operating in total". These could be trimmed or cut.
  • I've addressed your former point, but not the latter as in 1994, only about 15 of the class were commissioned.
  • Instead of "the Ohio" should it not be "USS Ohio"?
  • Either way is acceptable, but I'd hate the "USS Ohio, USS Michigan, USS Florida, and USS Georgia" construction, which is, obviously, redundant.
  • As TRM mentioned above, row and column scopes need to be added per MOS:DTT

Thanks, –Grondemar 01:21, 4 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Quick comment from Harrias talk
  • See below.

Comments

  • Per Harrias above, and against Parsecboy's suggestion above, I would remove the col merge and go with separate cells. For one thing, this list is sortable, while the "List of heavy cruisers of Germany" is not.
  • Shouldn't the color coding and the accessibility symbols be in the same column? If it were me, I'd color code (and symbolize) the boat name column.
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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