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The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by Dabomb87 22:45, 29 August 2011 [1].

List of Israeli football champions

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List of Israeli football champions (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

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Nominator(s): —Cliftonianthe orangey bit, HonorTheKing (talk) 12:25, 6 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I am nominating this for featured list because the raw data was already there before I started working on it, I've done a bit of work on the prose and on clarifying some issues, I've done some polishing and brought an untidy but informative list up to scratch. Now I think it's more or less ready. —Cliftonianthe orangey bit 12:25, 6 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved comments from bamse (talk) 18:21, 11 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Comments:

bamse (talk) 22:50, 6 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

  • Are "Total titles won by city" and "Total titles won by district" common statistics in sport contexts? Not sure what point theses lists want to make. After all it is a club which wins the title and the club has probably little connection to the city or district it is located in.
    • They are there to demonstrate regional dominance; Tel Aviv is only one city in Israel, and yet far more titles have been won by its clubs than anywhere else. Surely that is worth noting? Also consider the flipside, that certain smaller towns may have had success due to a more involved local fanbase, for example. I disagree very strongly, incidentally, that a club has little connection to where it is located, but that's beside the point here. —Cliftonianthe orangey bit 23:03, 6 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Done.
  – HonorTheKing (talk) 22:46, 18 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Glad you like it, about the revise, there is an article about the Palestine League (1931–47), But if you referring the name "Palestine" in it - it is belong there, as it was founded by Eretz Israel FA (now Israel FA) and the PFA in the support of the British, FIFA and its sub-groups recognise it as predecessor of the Israeli league system and part of the champions.
  – HonorTheKing (talk) 03:29, 22 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from NapHit (talk) 13:49, 26 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Comments
  • At the moment the table does not meet WP:ACCESS requirements; see the data tables tutorial.
  • ref 2 needs the format parameter added to it to indicate that it is a PDF.
  • The symbols used are not ACCESS-compliant. Replace the dagger and double-dagger with the {{dagger}} and {{double-dagger}} templates (the symbols redirect there, so you can just put in the braces) and the corresponding alt text.

Other than this it looks good. NapHit (talk) 13:06, 22 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

There's no alt text for the daggers and the you need to align the years centrally as they are to the left. NapHit (talk) 14:47, 25 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Okay, done. —Cliftonianthe orangey bit 15:34, 25 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Support NapHit (talk) 13:49, 26 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved comments from The Rambling Man (talk) 13:58, 26 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Comments
  • Would appreciate the addition of "association" in front of football in the opening sentence of the lead.
  • "began play in" reads very USEng to me...
  • " Since the first league season, 1931–32, only Maccabi Tel Aviv have not been relegated." this factoid seems oddly placed in the lead. I know it's a "since the first season" fact, but it's a little incongruous for me. I suspect it'd be better off in the next para.
  • "Including all of these league seasons..." any reason why you shouldn't just say "In all.."?
  • "13 and 12 victories respectively" - prefer titles to victories here. Or championships.
  • " who finished the season unbeaten and also won the Palestine Cup during that season" repetitive...
  • Not really convinced the double needs to be capitalised here.
  • "On Israel's independence..." perhaps "Following" or "After" or even "Upon"...
  • Third Place -> Third place.
  • Ref for Steimach playing for Hapoel Petah Tikva in the image caption?
  • "since the very first league season" no need for "very"
  • "came top" would prefer "finished top of the league" or similar.
  • "third places " shouldn't that be singular?
  • thrice - I love it but it's archaic, three times is much more commonly used.
  • "In the 1966–68 season, often referred to as the "double season", the sixteen teams played each other twice at home and twice away during a season lasting two years." is that referenced? particularly the quote?
  • " six new names" strictly it was six new teams.
  • "Due in part to this, these teams are sometimes known as the country's "Big Four"" copy-and-paste from the lead. I know the info is the same, but couldn't you rephrase it a little so it doesn't stick in my craw?
  • I'm not sure how accessible that pie chart is.
Do you think it should be removed?, the point in it was to show percentage. exemple that Hapoel and Maccai Tel Aviv almost won half of the titles.
  • You use plainrowheaders in the titles table but not the preceding tables. Is there a reason for that?
Yes because plainrowheaders doesn't bold and center the text. easier to read (seen it as one of the exemples in ACCESS page).
I understand what it does, I'm just curious why you use it inconsistently in the article. The Rambling Man (talk) 18:28, 24 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
You are right, I have redid all now to include plainrowheaders, for consistently matter.
  – HonorTheKing (talk) 18:54, 24 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • This is uber-anal but can you cite the cities/districts where the teams are stated to play?
  • Ref 15, use pipeline to avoid the double full stop after F.C.
  • External links dead for me (this could be me though).
Should tell people the official Israel FA page is in Hebrew, the Soccerway page (is it RS?) links to this week of this season, is that the intention? Perhaps worth an explanation. The Rambling Man (talk) 18:30, 24 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Took Soccerway off and put "(Hebrew)" on the IFA one. —Cliftonianthe orangey bit 18:57, 24 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I have changed the IFA to the english version, hope you don't mind.
  – HonorTheKing (talk) 19:06, 24 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Good stuff. —Cliftonianthe orangey bit 19:13, 24 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • This has "Ligat ha'Al" as a category. What's that? There's no mention of it in the article.
  • Similar question about Liga Alef.
My mistake about Liga Alef. Sorry. The Rambling Man (talk) 18:28, 24 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

- The Rambling Man (talk) 16:49, 24 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Both me and Cliftonian done, I also moved the Ligat ha'Al category to Israeli Premier League.
  – HonorTheKing (talk) 18:26, 24 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
All done now. I don't know about the pie chart, as you say it may be an issue. I didn't do the plainrowheaders, I can only presume that was Honor; I've taken it off in any case. Ligat ha'Al is the Israeli Premier League's name in Hebrew, I don't know why the category is called that. I have added the translation to the lead. Liga Alef is mentioned in the article, it has a whole section in fact; have I misunderstood your question? External links are fine for me. —Cliftonianthe orangey bit 18:40, 24 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I have expanded on a couple of points while you were fixing up the other bits.. The Rambling Man (talk) 18:41, 24 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
We should also talk to User:RexxS about the accessibility of the pie chart. The Rambling Man (talk) 18:44, 24 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I have commented on the above, in addion I sent RexxS a message and will see what he says.
  – HonorTheKing (talk) 19:03, 24 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
If there is a concern about the accessibility of any object in a webpage, ask yourself a question such as "Is that object conveying information visually that ought to be also available to those who cannot see it?" In the case of the pie chart, it has all of its essential information also presented as text below the chart, so it provides the information. Of course, the visually-impaired can't take in at a glance information like 'Hapoel and Maccai Tel Aviv won almost half of the titles', but we are not actually denying anyone that information, we are merely adding a convenience for the sighted – much the same as a photo does when we add one. In fact, it would be true to say that the pie chart only summarises the information in the table (which is accessible), so the author is due some praise for enriching the information provided in the article. Well done! This is all just my humble opinion, of course, but feel free to ping me if there's anything I've been unclear about. Cheers --RexxS (talk) 23:38, 24 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for your opinion.
  – HonorTheKing (talk) 23:53, 24 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Lekker lekker. —Cliftonianthe orangey bit 07:49, 25 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comment, close to Support

Done, it is now working.
  – HonorTheKing (talk) 17:33, 25 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]


The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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