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The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by Dabomb87 21:47, 24 October 2011 [1].

List of Florida Marlins managers

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List of Florida Marlins managers (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

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Nominator(s): Wizardman Operation Big Bear 03:50, 2 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I am nominating this for featured list because I believe it meets FL criteria, and also because it's one of the remaining few managerial lists that isn't yet featured. The other three post-90 teams have only had a few managers, so they don't have enough to fit the guidelines. The Marlins, however, have had 11 managers in not even 20 years. Take that for what it's worth. Wizardman Operation Big Bear 03:50, 2 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved comments from The Rambling Man (talk) 14:59, 8 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Comments
  • "division in MLB. The team joined MLB in " consider merging to "division in MLB, joining in..."
  • "losingest " seriously, what is happening to the English language these days...! Seriously, we certainly don't see that commonly in BritEng, can you say "the coach with the most losses" or something similar?
  • "the manager position, and his second stint as manager" repetitive, reword please.
  • "is part of the" wouldn't "is inducted in" or "is a member of" better?
  • Never quite sure but shouldn't season-and-a-half be hyphenated?
  • "took over for Girardi" I thought normally we "took over from"...
  • "and after a one-game stint by Brandon Hyde,[13] McKeon returned for a second stint as manager." two x stint, repetitive.
  • # isn't in the key.
  • "Elected to the National Baseball Hall of Fame [14]" remove space before ref.
  • "Interim Manager" -> Interim manager.
  • The hash column doesn't sort correctly, and I would still expect the second stints to sort in correct order once it does.
  • Not sure PA, PW etc does either.
  • Don't mix date formats in the references.

The Rambling Man (talk) 11:25, 6 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Comments on accessibility

  • Images all have substantial alt text - well done.
  • The main table has column headers marked up and scoped. Although tables generally benefit from having row headers, this may be one of those less usual cases where no unique row headers are available.
  • The main tables and the Key use the symbol † which is inaccessible (common screen readers don't recognise it). I'd strongly recommend using our accessible templates instead. You could use {{†|alt=Elected to the National Baseball Hall of Fame}} and {{‡|alt=Interim manager}} to replace † and ††, for example.
  • Tables generally benefit from captions, but as all three tables are positioned almost immediately after a level two heading, either the caption or heading would be redundant, and choosing to have headers and no captions is acceptable in cases like this.

--RexxS (talk) 19:15, 6 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

  • Access key on the table is fixed. Wizardman Operation Big Bear 14:56, 7 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    Sorry I wasn't very clear about the accessibility problem with † and ‡. A screen reader like JAWS just drops those symbols silently, so a blind use would never hear anything to tell them that Tony Perez was elected to the National Baseball Hall of Fame and was an interim manager, for example. The templates replace the symbol with an image, allowing us to use alt text to say something useful when the screen reader encounters the template (like speaking out "Elected to the National Baseball Hall of Fame" after saying "Tony Perez"). So we need to replace every occurrence of † or ‡ with the corresponding template. I've done that for you; hope that's ok. Unfortunately, because they are images, we can't superscript them as you had done with the text symbols, but you might want to consider whether superscript is a good idea anyway, since the superscripted star * is tiny and may be missed by anyone with poor vision. --RexxS (talk) 17:17, 7 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    Noted; I went ahead and removed the asterisk superscript too, since I could barely see them myself. Wizardman Operation Big Bear 15:57, 8 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    I believe that the article is now as accessible as it can be reasonably made, easily meeting our FL criteria for access, and would support on those grounds. --RexxS (talk) 17:56, 8 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Comments from KV5
  • "in MLB, joining MLB" - seems a little redundant, any way to re-word?
  • Lead para should be 12 managers.
  • "season-and-a-half" isn't a compound noun; remove hyphens or change to 1+1⁄2 seasons or one-and-one-half seasons (wherein "one-and-one-half" is a compound number").
  • "who was only manager"
  • Change to direct links for the following players in lead and table: Fredi González, Tony Pérez, Edwin Rodríguez, and Ozzie Guillén.
  • I do think that the row headers would be beneficial, especially since one table has them and one does not.
  • Remove spaces surrounding en-dashes, per MOS:DASH.
  • Remove spaces between indicators (daggers, asterisks) and their entries (ex. "Joe Girardi*" instead of "Joe Girardi *").
  • Superscript daggers and double daggers as they are cap height.
  • Got a red/dead in the ref list.

That's all for me. — KV5 • Talk • 00:31, 2 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Will get to in a couple days. McKeon's retirement and Guillen's swift hiring threw off most of my list modifications and I'll probably have to rewrite the lead now, since some records may have been changed. I'm learning not to be a fan of the Marlins after doing this list. Wizardman Operation Big Bear 15:30, 2 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Sounds good. I'll be back to check in. — KV5 • Talk • 22:32, 2 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Issues fixed with the exception of the superscripts and spaces on the daggers/asterisks. I had them like that originally but per above comments, they were too small and hard to see, so this helped for accessibility. Wizardman Operation Big Bear 02:37, 4 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I struck the two concerns above that were completed. The rest haven't been. The claim that the daggers can't be superscripted isn't correct. I do it all the time, and it doesn't make them any smaller, so they should still be superscripted. The concern was with the asterisks, which are still spaced and shouldn't be. — KV5 • Talk • 15:33, 8 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Fixed except for the rowheaders, because I can't seem to get them to show properly. I'll keep trying though. Wizardman Operation Big Bear 15:42, 8 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I'll get it for you. Can be tough the first couple times round. — KV5 • Talk • 15:47, 8 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Done. This list has my Support. — KV5 • Talk • 15:54, 8 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]


The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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