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List of California birds

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This is a self-nomination, and I'm nominating it because I believe it meets all of the requirements for a featured list. I've tried to create a good balance between visually pleasing and informative pictures and having a list that is not too cluttered and too large for people with modem connections. The writing in the list is mostly taken from List of North American birds. Basar 05:25, 4 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment I'm going to ignore List of North American birds as this list needs to stand on its own. The lead has several short paragraphs and unnecessarily quotes when it could just state. The Check-list you mention should be in the references (with a link to the online edition). Each section has a few sentences about the family, and nbr of worldwide, US and California species - what is your source for those details? Colin°Talk 17:59, 6 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
It's right to judge this article on its own merit, but you have to consider whether the criticism is valid or not since four, count 'em four, other lists with the exact same text have been giving glowing FLC reviews. WP:CITE says that all material that is likely to be challenged or has been challenged needs sourcing. This material might qualify as material that won't likely be challenged as factually inaccurate. I like having the quote in the LC. I like the tone that it brings, but I can change it if there is a community consensus against it. I added the A.O.U. reference. Basar 00:50, 9 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks. Basar 01:22, 23 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment can you make a more compact version of the TOC. (See here for an example of the sort of thing I mean). Ideally, it should indicate how the sections are grouped by order (because they appear totally random looking at the default TOC). Also, an image per section would be good (unless the sections are so short that the image would spill onto the next one). Tompw (talk) 23:33, 22 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
That is quite the TOC; I had never seen one of those before. I can sure make one, but it might not look as good as the one referred. The first half of the sections have many, many orders and the last half is a single order. I could simply group them into non-passerines and passerines; it would at least be more compact. I think adding a few more pictures would be OK. Basar 01:18, 23 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - Whilst I like the TOC that Tompw has linked to, I think the current TOC is more appropriate for this type of page, unless there's some way you can do two columns side-by-side. CheekyMonkey 10:19, 24 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I made a preview of the proposed TOC in my sandbox User:Basar/Sandbox. Comments are welcome before I go to the work of finishing it. Two columns may be possible, but I think this looks nice too. Basar 18:18, 24 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Looks good to me... though both groups have been labelled "Non-passerines". Tompw (talk) 00:10, 25 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
A few further comments: Consider making (I) and (E) into footnotes (see Locks on the Kennet and Avon Canal for an example); format the quote from CBRC with <blockquote>; and use an "as of 2006" type link in the lead; metion briefly what introduced/expatriated means. Tompw (talk) 00:15, 25 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I fixed the quote and added the as of 2006 link, but I'm not sure about the other two changes. Introduced and expatriated seem more like normal English words that people should know rather than technical jargon that needs to be defined. I see how the footnotes would be sort of slick, but I feel funny about using an old template, and I'm not sure it adds much. I also like having that information at the top so I can incorporate it in the discussion of numbers. If I did the E and I with footnotes, I would feel like I should do the asterisk too, but then I wouldn't have much to say in the LS; it would also make for a big footnote. Thanks for running your program on the TOC; I think it was a good idea to have it more compact. Basar 01:59, 25 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The footnote thingwas just a suggestion - it's not a big deal either way. My problem with introducted/expatriated is that these are normal Enlgish words being used in a technical sense. (Like "group" in mathematics). I was thinking about something like "Ten of these species are introduced (transported there by human activity)" and something similar for Expatriated (which links to expatriate in the sense of someone settled abroad, not the sense used in the article). Glad you found the TOC useful. Tompw (talk) 12:31, 25 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Well, the TOC now looks very neat, but the terms Non-passerines and Passerines are not linked or explained anywhere. I think adding an additional sentence to the paragraph starting "This list is presented in taxonomic order..." explaining that they are also grouped into these two groups would cover this. I think the terms introducted/expatriated are self explanatory and are good as they are, though I'm fairly neutral on this. CheekyMonkey 12:44, 25 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I defined expatriated, introduced, and passerine. I think the changes turned out well. Basar 00:51, 26 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Yep, looks good. CheekyMonkey 12:51, 26 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
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