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The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by PresN via FACBot (talk) 00:26, 29 October 2020 (UTC) [1].[reply]

List of Broadway theaters

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List of Broadway theaters (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

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Nominator(s): Found5dollar (talk) 15:52, 17 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I am nominating this for featured list because "Broadway Theater" is a well known term without a historically well-defined meaning. Over time what has defined a Broadway Theater has changed and marking out the fluidity of the category is not something easily found elsewhere on the internet. I passed this list through Peer Review and was encourage to directly nominate it here. I look forward to everyone's feedback.Found5dollar (talk) 15:52, 17 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by Chidgk1

[edit]
  • Add an article description
  • "Early variety, burlesque, and minstrelsy halls were built along Broadway below Houston Street, and as the city expanded north new theaters were constructed along the thoroughfare with family friendly vaudeville, developed by Tony Pastor, clustering around Union Square in the 1860s and 1870s, larger opera houses, hippodromes, and theaters populating Broadway between Union Square and Times Square later in the century, and Times Square itself becoming the epicenter for large scale theater productions between 1900 and the Great Depression." is confusing. Maybe it should be two sentences.
  • re-worded it as: "Early variety, burlesque, and minstrelsy halls were built along Broadway below Houston Street. As the city expanded north new theaters were constructed along the thoroughfare with family friendly vaudeville, developed by Tony Pastor, clustering around Union Square in the 1860s and 1870s, and larger opera houses, hippodromes, and theaters populating Broadway between Union Square and Times Square later in the century. Times Square became the epicenter for large scale theater productions between 1900 and the Great Depression."--Found5dollar (talk) 17:55, 19 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • If possible add a pic of Circle in the Square Theatre
  • there isn't one on commons and I did all my normal searching for a freely licensed one but couldn't find any. I normally would just go take a picture but with COVID I can't make it to mid town right now...--Found5dollar (talk) 17:55, 19 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • No need for image and refs columns to be sortable.
  • I am not familiar with US addresses so not sure if that column sort is useful. Belasco Theatre address looks odd.
  • it is all address in Manhattan that are odd. Belasco's address of "111 W. 44th St." breaks down to Building Number (111), side of Manhattan (East or West, here it is "W" for West), then the street or avenue (44th St.). Lots of numbers and abbreviations, I know but that is how it is laid out here.Found5dollar (talk) 17:55, 19 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • "The following lists organize all demolished venues which hosted legitimate theater that appear on the Database based on when their last theatrical production was compared to the three moments that can be considered the begging of Broadway theatre." is confusing even if "begging" is a typo for "beginning".
  • re-worded it to "The following lists organize all demolished venues which hosted legitimate theater and appear on the Database. The theaters are organized into 4 lists based on when their last theatrical production opened compared to the three moments that may be considered the begining of Broadway theatre."Found5dollar (talk) 17:55, 19 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Use of "still" in "Before the advent of the musical there were still multiple theaters in New York that claimed the moniker of "Broadway", including an 1847 theater named the Broadway Theatre." reads odd to me but perhaps it is normal in US English?
  • 1841 is when Barnum acquired the building, not when the theater opened. I have not been able to find that information anywhere. changing the column to "opened" would sold this because we know the Chinese rooms opened in 1850 per the source. Changed all "Built" headers to "opened" and filled in Barnum's cell.Found5dollar (talk) 17:55, 19 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Do you think "buildings" would be better than "structures"?
  • I went with the word "structures" in the lead because not all of the theaters through history were encloses. A handfull were open air roof top spaces and 1 was an outdoor amphitheater. Because of this "building" doest cover all of the theaters through history, while "structure" does.Found5dollar (talk) 17:55, 19 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

If you have time could you take a quick look at List of active coal-fired power stations in Turkey and comment at Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/List of active coal fired power stations in Turkey/archive1. Assuming you know nothing about the subject it will be valuable if you could point out anything which is difficult to understand for a first time reader. Chidgk1 (talk) 16:59, 17 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved comments from ChrisTheDude (talk) 07:25, 23 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
;Drive-by comment
  • The size at which the map is being displayed is far far too large. Also, could it be zoomed in? Currently all the red dots are crammed into about 2% of the map, and it shows a huge area, including parts of a different state, which don't seem relevant to this article -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 10:24, 18 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Yes, that map has been an issue for me as well. Below, Guerillero is helping move the coord infor into commons and i will replace the maps with a maplink version once that is completedFound5dollar (talk) 18:41, 19 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Further comments on the lead
  • The photo caption looks really weird with the "(from far left)" bit at the start. That should go after the list of names.
  • "the first large, long-term theater" - don't think there should be a comma there
  • "The current, legal definition" - ......or there
  • "based off a 1949 Actors' Equity agreement" => "based on a 1949 Actors' Equity agreement" (unless "based off" is American English - it certainly isn't a valid usage in the British English I speak)
  • "we see today" => "seen today"
  • "the general rule is any venue" => "the general rule is that any venue"
  • "only 3 active Broadway theaters" => "only three active Broadway theaters"
  • "The Vivian Beaumont Theater, located in Lincoln Center is" => "The Vivian Beaumont Theater, located in Lincoln Center, is"
  • "Southernmost" and "westernmost" are each one word, not two
  • "the 1933 seat" => "the 1933-seat" (and the same later in the sentence)
  • The sentence starting "early variety" is way too long and should be broken up
  • re-worded it as: "Early variety, burlesque, and minstrelsy halls were built along Broadway below Houston Street. As the city expanded north new theaters were constructed along the thoroughfare with family friendly vaudeville, developed by Tony Pastor, clustering around Union Square in the 1860s and 1870s, and larger opera houses, hippodromes, and theaters populating Broadway between Union Square and Times Square later in the century. Times Square became the epicenter for large scale theater productions between 1900 and the Great Depression."--Found5dollar (talk) 18:41, 19 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Broadway style theatre" => "Broadway-style theatre"
  • That also makes me think.....why is theater/theatre spelt two different ways?
  • in American English, at least from what I have been taught and experience, "theater" and "theatre" have two different meanings. "Theater" references the physical space, while "theatre" references the art form. It gets a little squishy in this article because most of the Broadway theaters, use the "re" version in their official names. On the main Broadway Theatre page they even have a foot note trying to explain this out reading "Although theater is the generally preferred spelling in the United States (see American and British English spelling differences), many Broadway venues, performers and trade groups for live dramatic presentations use the spelling theatre." --Found5dollar (talk) 18:41, 19 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • "began with the previously discussed" - don't think the phrase "previously discussed" is appropriate in an encyclopedia article
removed. Found5dollar (talk) 18:41, 19 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]


Comments by Guerillero
  • Guerillero, THANK YOU! The map was a tough sticking point for me, I know we need it, but I tried both Location map and OSM Location map but neither seemd to be the right answer. I have never used Maplink before. Thank you for creating this and I'm going to read up on how this style of map works.Found5dollar (talk) 18:18, 19 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from ChrisTheDude (talk) 19:23, 9 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
;Comments on the first section/table
  • "the list of Tony eligible houses" => "the list of Tony-eligible houses"
  • In the first/longest/current columns, any production that starts with "A" or "The" should sort based on the next word
  • The tiny dash in the current column for some theatres is so small it's easy to miss. I would replace it with the {{N/A}} template
  • Some of the former names do not have a space between the last word and the brackets
  • Robert F. Kennedy Children's' Theatre should not have an apostrophe both before and after the S
Comments on the second section/table
  • Headers of image and ref columns should have capitals
  • Again, some missing spaces between the last word and the brackets
  • In the first row, auditorium should not have a capital A
  • Second row - when was it the Hotel Edison's ballroom? Was that before/after/at the same time as the names shown below it?
  • Third row - no reason for capital S on studio
Comments on the next bit
  • "The newly formed actors union" => "The newly-formed actors' union
  • "month long strike" should also have a dash
  • "to allow union member to perform" => members
  • "4 lists" => "four lists"
  • "All theaters are listed by the name in use when their last theatrical production took place in them" - no need for the last two words
  • "Post 1949 agreement" => "Post-1949 agreement"
  • The former names for the demolished theatres don't list dates, as the other tables do. Is this info not available?
  • it is available, but I figured in these demolished sections the dates were not important as the building no longer stands. When a demolished building changed names seem moot to me. I'd be happy to add in this info if it seems valuable and like it won't muddy the table.Found5dollar (talk) 18:03, 1 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Post 1919 Actors strike" - this should probably either be "Post-1919 Actors' Equity strike" or "Post-1919 actors' strike"
  • "month long strike" again needs a dash
  • "now official industry" => "now-official industry"
  • "before the 1949 actors equity agreement" => "before the 1949 Actors' Equity agreement"
  • Again, are the dates for former names not available?
  • "Post 1866 Black Crook Production" => "Post-1866 Black Crook Production"
  • "In 1866 The Black Crook, opened at Niblo's Garden" - don't need that comma
  • "the first piece of American style" - American-style needs a hyphen
  • "large scale book musical" => "large-scale book musical"
  • "closed before the 1919 Actors Equity strike." needs an apostrophe on Actors'
  • Dates again in the last table?
  • "While most early theaters were short lived" - short-lived needs a dash
  • "These newly constructed, long term theaters" - newly-constructed and long-term both need dashes
  • Nineteenth century, conversely, doesn't
  • "since the beginning of theater in New York City and the opening of The Black Crook." - between the beginning of theater and the opening of The Black Crook, surely?
  • Dates for former names again?
  • ChrisTheDude, thank you for such a through review and pointing out that I have absolutely no idea when a hyphen is necessary ;-P. The only note that I think needs discussion is the addition of dates for the former names of demolished theaters. As i stated above this information is available, but i chose not to include it. I figured in these demolished sections the dates were not important as the building no longer stands. When a demolished building changed names seem moot to me. I'd be happy to add in this info if it seems valuable and like it won't muddy the table. Please let me know if it seem pertinent to you or not. Thanks again for the review!Found5dollar (talk) 18:03, 1 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • ChrisTheDude, It took a while but I got all the past names dated in the demolished theater sections. the only issue is with "Princess Theatre" where there are 3 previous names but no dates attached in the reference. please let me know if there are anyother issues you see and thank you for all the suggestions so far!Found5dollar (talk) 21:41, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Juset one (hopefully final) comment - based on the source I believe the entry for the Bijou Theatre should list its second spell of being known by that name as 1965-1982, not just 1965 -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 07:26, 17 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Source review - Pass

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Doing now Aza24 (talk) 06:05, 18 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Nielsen Holdings is Nielsen Business Media, not sure if it should be linked though
  • Ref 4 Feb 08 should be February 8
  • Refs 2, 3, 6, 8 and 63 should have a space after the "p." (e.g. "p. 40")
  • Ref 6 should be "pp. 6–7" (note the em – dash)
  • What is "Jefferson, London." in ref 63?

Comments from TRM

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WikiCup entry

  • Broadway is overlinked twice in the lead.
  • Image caption is a fragment, doesn't need a period.
  • I toyed with this for a little bit, but Off-Off has no true relationship to Broadway theaters as structures. Off-Off was realy created as a response to Off-Broadway becoming too commercial, not Broadway which always was. If this was a list of Off-Broadway theaters I would 100% talk about Off-Off as it is the next tier of theater in NYC, but it has very little bearing historically to the theater buildings that make up Broadway.--Found5dollar (talk) 22:38, 21 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Most of the second paragraph isn't referenced, like those at geographical extremities.
  • It is my understanding that summarizing what the chart says does not need to be cited. These items including geographic extremities, youngest and oldest, largest and smallest, etc. are fully cited and explained in the chart and derive from it. I'd be happy to cite them here as well if my understanding is incorrect, but I am unsure how to cite that.--Found5dollar (talk) 22:38, 21 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Actor's Equity (Association) is overlinked.
  • In the "Active..." section, Actor's Equity (Association) is linked on its second mention.
  • The Broadway League is overlinked.
  • "organizations currently use" avoid "currently" again.
  • No. of seats in that source appears to be "approximate" so that needs to be reflected in the list somehow.
  • Just as an interesting aside, capacity for venues in America are almost always approximate due to the Americans with Disabilities Act. One wheelchair takes up two "seats" so capacity and seat numbers will fluctuate based upon the amount of wheelchair uses at each performance. I have added a note referencing that all capacity numbers are approximate, and now since there are 2 notes in the article i started a new "Notes" section.--Found5dollar (talk) 22:38, 21 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • As a non-expert, can you explain how the "address" column sorts please?
  • The address column sorts by the number of the street the theater is on, then the building number. It sorts theaters on 41st street first, then 42nd, then 43rd, etc. with the theaters on Broadway sorted last.--Found5dollar (talk) 22:38, 21 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • "are 9 theaters" nine.
  • "W Hotel"->"W Hotels"
  • Why isn't Central Theatre referred to as Movieland, per the ref? Suddenly now using the original names?
  • Picking which name to use for each theater was a challenge as some have gone through so many names. My general rule is to list theaters under the name they went by when they last hosted a legitimate theatrical production. Central Theater is a special case though because it did have legitimate theater from 1951-1956 under the "Holiday Theatre" name, but the wiki page, and one of the sources still called it the "Central Theater." I made an exception here because it seems "Central Theater" is the popular name for it, but understand if people disagree and feel that it should be listed as "Holiday Theater" for sake of consistency. It shoudlt be listed under "Movieland" because no theatrical productions took place under that moniker.--Found5dollar (talk) 22:38, 21 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Theater" v "Theatre"... interesting issues (e.g. Ed Sullivan Theater reference calls it Ed Sullivan Theatre...)
  • "Theater" v "Theatre" is incredibly hard to parse out and is often contridicted by sources for the same places. We even have a disclaimer on the main Broadway theatre page which states: "Although theater is the generally preferred spelling in the United States (see American and British English spelling differences), many Broadway venues, performers and trade groups for live dramatic presentations use the spelling theatre." I tended to base how to spell each buildings name here based first off what the IBDB source says, but then if the article for the theater has a different spelling of "theater" I went with it instead. I figured that the editors working on the individual theater spent more time with varied sources for that specific building so deferred to it.--Found5dollar (talk) 22:38, 21 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • No need to link common terms like "hotel" or "storefront"...
  • Actors' Equity is overlinked several times.
  • Internet Broadway Database is overlinked.
  • Why isn't "President Theatre" referred to as "Erwin Piscator's Dramatic Workshop" per its source? There seem to be a few discrepancies of this nature.
  • My general rule is to list theaters under the name they went by when they last hosted a legitimate theatrical production. The Dramatic Workshop was a school in multiple locations, had no public performances from what I can tell, and has no productions listed on the IBDB source. The last legitimate theatrical production in the space was under the "President Theatre" moniker. These discrepancies you may be findings are likey similiar issues to this one. Often a theater space is turned into another kind of theater before it is knocked down.--Found5dollar (talk) 22:38, 21 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Tynan caption is fragment, no period.
  • " variety, burlesque, and minstrel " all overlinked.
  • "Whether or not it is truly the first musical, The Black Crook marks a turning point where Broadway became less about the variety, burlesque, and minstrel shows of the past, and began to be known more for the large-scale book musical which still reigns today. T" claims like this need reference and attribution.
  • Nibio's Garden caption is a frag, no period.
  • Ref 7 title is missing an apostrophe.
Fixed--Found5dollar (talk) 22:38, 21 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Park Theatre caption, same again, no period.

That's a first pass. The Rambling Man (Hands! Face! Space!!!!) 14:51, 19 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Sdkb

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I haven't done a featured list review before, so take my comments with a grain of salt, but I've been reviewing some nominations in preparation for submitting a candidate page I've been working on, and wanted to leave a few thoughts about this page. Overall, it looks quite good — the images are quite nice, and the map is a very useful addition. The main source, IBDB, looks reliable.

There are a few tweaks that could be made to improve the formatting of the tables. When abbreviations are used for headers, they should be accompanied by {{abbr}}, as I demonstrated here. Some columns for things like years might also benefit from being centered rather than left-justified.

  • I have updated all the abbreviations in the headers to say what the abbr stands for. I previously considered centering the date columns, but it began to look weird in my opinion in the demolished theater sections because you had a centered year, a not centered year and title of of play, then a centered year again. I felt if years are centered in one table they should be in all of them. I'm happy to do this if other people think it would make legibility of the tables better but i just felt it looked awkward.--Found5dollar (talk) 17:37, 5 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Per criterion 5's expectation that minimal proportion of items are redlinked, I do notice that there are quite a few redlinked items, mostly historical plays. I'm not sure why that's a criterion, since I don't think it'd be fair to force the creation of a gazillion small stubs in order for this page to be listed. The thing that does matter for redlinks, though, is making sure that all redlinked pages are notable. It looks like we don't have a specific notability guideline for plays, so I'd be curious to hear your thoughts regarding whether we're safe assuming that any play that has been on Broadway is sure to meet the General Notability Guideline, and if we're not, which redlinks we might want to unlink.

  • IMHO a play or musical that has had a Broadway run is inherently notable. Unfortunately theater coverage in Wikipedia is not as good as it could be so many notable pieces are still missing articles. I agree there is an above average number of redlinks in some columns (namely the playas in the theaters), but I do not feel like they overwhelm. Of the actual items the list is about, theater buildings, only 16 out of almost 150 entries are redlinked which feels minimal to me. I'm happy to unlink the plays that are relinked if it is distracting but also hope that by them being redlinked it may open the doors for another editior to create the pages.--Found5dollar (talk) 17:37, 5 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Once the above things are addressed, I will be happy to offer my support, although again with the caveat that I am not the most experienced reviewer. Cheers, {{u|Sdkb}} talk 01:45, 28 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@The Rambling Man: did you have any more comments to add to the batch from before? Giants2008 (Talk) 22:09, 7 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved comments from Giants2008 (Talk) 21:19, 10 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Comments –
  • Active Broadway theaters: For some reason, Grand Army Man isn't sorting in the right order in the Productions column.
  • Post-1949 agreement: You probably don't need an Off-Broadway link here, since there's already one in the previous section.
  • The all caps in the title of ref 4 should be removed. Also, it looks like you need a space before the publisher in that cite.

Giants2008 (Talk) 18:52, 8 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Promoting. --PresN 22:30, 28 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Closing note: This candidate has been promoted, but there may be a delay in bot processing of the close. Please see WP:FLC/ar, and leave the {{featured list candidates}} template in place on the talk page until the bot goes through.
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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