Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/List of Banana Fish episodes/archive1

The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by PresN via FACBot (talk) 03:26:44 27 November 2019 (UTC) [1].

List of Banana Fish episodes

Featured list candidates/List of Banana Fish episodes/archive1

Nominator(s): Morgan695 (talk) 02:57, 5 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I worked on this list back when the series was airing; it has been off-air for about eight months now, so the content is stable and unlikely to change in the future. The list concerns Banana Fish, an influential manga series in the 80s/90s that was adapted into a series last year. I believe the list provides a plot overview without veering into excessive detail, is throughly sourced, and has a well-written lead section. I appreciate any feedback or comments. Morgan695 (talk) 02:57, 5 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from ChrisThe Dude

"(alternately stylized as BANANA FISH)" - is this needed? If all it means is that the title is shown in capitals, I think it is unnecessary. Coronation Street has its title shown in caps in its opening sequence, but I don't think the lead needs to say "(alternately stylized as CORONATION STREET)"
"although detectives Jenkins and Dickenson believe he is innocent, Evanstine arrests Ash" - presumably Evanstine is a third detective? Might be worth saying "their colleague Evanstine"..........
"used as a frontfor a" - missing space between two words
"Together with Shorter, Max, Eiji and Ibe, the five men visit Ash's family home" - that makes a total of nine men, which I don't think is what you mean. Best to just say "Together with Shorter, Max, Eiji and Ibe, Ash visit s his family home"
"Shorter later discovers that the Alexis Dawson" - don't think the word "the" is needed there
"the then kills Abraham" - seems to be at least one word missing here
"the National Health Institute, federal health facility run by Dr. Mannerheim" => "the National Health Institute, a federal health facility run by Dr. Mannerheim"
Spelling of Blanca suddenly changes to Blanka (and then later back to Blanca)
"Golzine and Yut-Lung hire Eduardo Foxx's group of mercenaries and former members of the French Foreign Legion, to capture Ash" - comma after Legion not needed
"Meanwhile, Lao Yen-Thai, Sing's half-brother has never forgiven Ash for killing Shorter, is ordered by Yut-Lung to kill Eiji, though he refuses to do so" => "Meanwhile, Lao Yen-Thai, Sing's half-brother, who has never forgiven Ash for killing Shorter, is ordered by Yut-Lung to kill Eiji, though he refuses to do so"
Think that's it from me.......... -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 12:12, 9 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@User:ChrisTheDude Thanks for the review. I've implemented the changes you suggested, as well as some general culling of excessively detailed plot summaries.. Morgan695 (talk) 18:48, 9 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

A few further comments

The image seems to have disappeared?
I can see both "the group prepares" and "the group use" (eps 5 and 6) - is a group a plural or singular noun in the form of English in which the article is written?
"After visiting to Max's ex-wife" => "After visiting Max's ex-wife"
"discovers that young man" => "discovers that the young man"
"Golzine and Yut-Lung hires the militia of Eduardo Foxx" => "Golzine and Yut-Lung hire the militia of Eduardo Foxx"
All the best, ChrisTheDude (talk) 12:00, 10 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I've incorporated these changes. Looks like the infobox was removed by an intervening edit, so I've re-added the image. Morgan695 (talk) 13:51, 10 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry to be a massive pedant, which I am sure you find very irksome, but in episodes 5, 6 and 7 I can still see four uses of "the group [verb]" and in two cases the verb is singular and in the other two it's plural. I would just fix them, but I am not sure which version of English the article is written in (American?) so I am not 100% sure which usage is correct. Sorry again...... :-( -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 15:34, 10 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@User:ChrisTheDude Ah, I see what you mean. This should be resolved now. Morgan695 (talk) 20:40, 10 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Support -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 09:18, 11 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Aoba47

I would add ALT text to the image in the lead.
What do you mean by a "key visual"? Is it like a poster?
This part "adding modern references such as smartphones and substituting the Vietnam War with the Iraq War." should have a citation.
Since almost everything is cited in the lead, then I would recommend adding citations for these sentences as well: "The series consists of two cours, totaling 24 episodes. Aniplex encapsulated the series into four volumes, in DVD and Blu-Ray formats."
I agree with ChrisTheDude's concern about the "the group [verb]" parts not being consistent in terms of the verbs being singular or plural.
I am uncertain if the reference/note in the episode synopsis for "The Catcher in the Rye" is entirely necessary. That information seems more relevant to the main article on the series rather than here as it is more about the writing and production while this list is more focused on plot, broadcasting, and release.

Otherwise, everything looks good to me. I believe ChrisTheDude already has covered a lot so thank you for that. I have heard of this manga/anime when I was doing research on the boy's love genre as part of my M.A. project so it is nice to learn more about it. I hope my comments are helpful, and have a great rest of your day! Aoba47 (talk) 18:03, 10 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@User:Aoba47 Thank you for your review, and I'm happy to hear you learned more about the series from doing it. I've incorporated the citation and copy edits you suggested; a key visual is essentially a piece of promotional art, so I've used that word as a more widely-recognized alternative. Re: the citation in "The Catcher In The Rye," I added it awhile ago because this article and Banana Fish were the subject of a quasi-trolling edit war over whether the series truly ends with the protagonist dying; the citation clarifies the plot directly from the creator of the series. Morgan695 (talk) 20:40, 10 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for addressing everything, and that all makes sense to me. I support this for promotion. It was a pleasure to read this. If you have the time, I would greatly appreciate any help with my current FAC. However, I understand if you do not have the time or interest so do not feel pressured to do so. Either way, good luck with this nomination and have a great rest of your week! Aoba47 (talk) 20:44, 10 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from lullabying with 3O response from Seraphimblade

I think it would be better if the article contained information about the anime production process, because so far I'm not seeing the jump from a B article to a Good article. I know Spoon 2Di released staff interviews which I think would be helpful in building the article. Also, this is the first time I'm seeing audio dramas listed in the episodes... for some reason I don't think they belong there because this article should focus on the animation itself. lullabying (talk) 16:29, 27 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Lullabying: I can do some research into fleshing out information on production. Regarding the audio dramas, I think this is a specific case where they merit inclusion because they were produced by the same studio that produced the anime, with the same voice cast, and were released exclusively with the physical media release of the series. If this were a typical anime radio drama, where the audio may have been produced by a different company with different voice actors and given its own discrete release on a CD/other physical media, I would agree that it would be strange to include it here. The Banana Fish audio dramas are essentially minisodes for the anime series, and I think it enhances the list to include them in the article. Morgan695 (talk) 18:21, 27 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

A lot of drama CDs use the same voice cast in the anime and they're released as bonuses in the manga/home release. It just doesn't fit considering that the list is supposed to focus on animated episodes IMHO. I know Ao Haru Ride had a drama CD released with one of the manga volumes to promote the anime, and had some bonus comics released with the limited editions of the home release but I wouldn't necessarily list it in the episodes section because they're not the same format. It's a similar case with the Persona 3 drama CDs. lullabying (talk) 18:25, 27 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I still believe Banana Fish is a distinct case, as the audio drama episodes were included with the physical anime release (and not the manga, as in the case of Ao Haru Ride) and did not receive their own discrete media release (as in the case of Persona 3). I can continue working on your note re: production, but we can route to a second opinion as necessary if the audio drama issue is an impasse. Morgan695 (talk) 18:40, 27 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Digimon Tamers also had a new drama CD with its new Blu-ray release. Anyways, the inclusion doesn't fit the format for WP:EPISODE, since these pages are supposed to focus on television episodes or shorts. lullabying (talk) 18:49, 27 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The Digimon Tamers Blu-ray example appears to be a one-off single episode release, rather than a multi-episodic release as Banana Fish was. And I'm not seeing any specific guidance at WP:EPISODE that circumscribes content for television "list of episode" articles in the way you've described, beyond the content needing to be notable and sourced (aka the standard for any Wikipedia article). Morgan695 (talk) 19:26, 27 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I recommend you opening a WP:3PO request because as stated, this article should ideally focus on televised episodes or animated shorts, whereas audio dramas are simply audio dramas and aren't part of the format. These are simply drama CDs that come with the limited editions of the home release and would put some WP:UNDUE. Some anime home releases come with limited edition comics, just like the CDs, and I wouldn't list them here just like the CD dramas. As it currently is, I disagree with it being on the page. lullabying (talk) 20:09, 27 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Lullabying: Third opinion request has been made. I will continue to edit the list's information on production and ping you when it is in acceptable condition to review. Morgan695 (talk) 23:31, 27 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Lullabying: Lede has been revised to include more information on production. The section now contains 2563B of readable prose, making it of roughly equivalent size to the featured list List of Grey's Anatomy episodes (2366 B), listed at Wikipedia:EPISODE as a "good example of a 'list of' page" Morgan695 (talk) 18:33, 28 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Forgot to mention, the names of musicians and song titles cannot be in all capitals unless they are acronyms per MOS:JAPAN#Titles of media. lullabying (talk) 03:23, 29 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Fixed. Morgan695 (talk) 03:36, 29 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

3O Response: Given that the audio dramas were an official, canon part of the releases, were offered with the series media, and were a series unto themselves rather than a one-off or novelty, I think their inclusion is warranted. Seraphimblade ^{Talk to me} 03:56, 16 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for your comments, Seraphimblade. Given your comment, and that two reviewers have already elected to support the list for featured status in its current form with the audio drama episodes included, I am going to keep them in the list at this time, and would welcome input from other editors who wish to review the list for featured eligibility. Morgan695 (talk) 17:17, 16 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Nihonjoe

I only have one question:

Are there any sources discussing the names of the episodes? They all seem to be named after famous works of some sort. If there are sources, I think this would be a good thing to include as it seems to be a deliberate choice.

All of my other potential comments/questions are covered by others, above. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 22:57, 22 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Nihonjoe: I've added a note to the third paragraph about the episode titles being references to literary works. Morgan695 (talk) 23:12, 22 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Morgan695: Looks good. Support. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 23:29, 22 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Tintor2

Some minor thoughts I had:

Can the directors in the episodes be referenced?
The second paragraph starts a bit confusing "A Banana Fish anime" It kinda feels like there was another anime. Maybe it could sound better as "The Banana Fish anime"

Other than that, I think other editors pointed the other stuff. Ping me and I will support if everything goes well.Tintor2 (talk) 02:41, 23 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Tintor2: Edits have been made. The directors are cited in the air date references, but I've repeated the reference for clarity. Morgan695 (talk) 04:37, 23 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Nice. I was looking to nitpick more but I only found a bit of wikilinks revision but I went bold. I support. Good work with this article.Tintor2 (talk) 15:12, 23 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Source review passed, promoting. --Pres N 03:26, 27 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Closing note: This candidate has been promoted, but there may be a delay in bot processing of the close. Please see WP:FLC/ar, and leave the {{featured list candidates}} template in place on the talk page until the bot goes through.

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.