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The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by User:Matthewedwards 00:56, 17 December 2008 [1].

List of Arizona Cardinals head coaches

[edit]

Gary King (talk) 02:09, 6 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comments

Comment

Again with this one, I think you should have asked Bole2 before nominating, since I think its rude nominating without the main contributor. -- SRE.K.Annoyomous.L.24[c] 05:31, 6 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved comments from SRX

Oppose - many prose issues.

  • The Arizona Cardinals of the National Football League (NFL) have had 36 head coaches. - this should not be the introductory sentence, this should go in the final paragraph to summarize the list.
  • The lead should say something like The Arizona Cardinals are a professional American football franchise based in (city, state). They play in the (division) of the (conference) in the National Football League (NFL). In this way the reader can get a good understanding of where they are based in to follow the background as to where they originated.
  • The Cardinals franchise originated as the Morgan Athletic Club in 1898. - did they originate in Arizona, or where?
  • A few years later, they were renamed the Racine Street Cardinals. - exact time per (In 19??, they were renamed as the Racine Street Cardinals.) [Also add the as before the.].
  • The name came from University of Chicago jerseys that the team used, which were described as "Cardinal red". - add the before the University name. In addition, what is verifying this sentence and the sentences before this; there is no in-line citation.
  • They joined the American Football League in 1920—the team is the oldest franchise in the NFL. - you're going to have to say the went to the NFL as a part of the NFL-AFL merger, its odd to cut off right here.
  • The team has moved to a number of cities during its history; after staying in Chicago from 1920 to 1959, it moved to St. Louis, Missouri and remained there from 1960 to 1987. --> The team has moved to numerous cities during its history; after staying in Chicago from 1920 to 1959, it moved to St. Louis, Missouri, and it remained there from 1960 to 1987.
  • It briefly stayed at Phoenix, Arizona, from 1988 to 1993, before eventually settling in Glendale, Arizona in 1994, where it now resides. - In not At. Where it currently resides should replace the last part of that sentence.
  • Since 1920, two Cardinals coaches have won the NFL Championship: Norman Barry in 1925 and Jimmy Conzelman in 1947. - a comma works better here than the colon.
  • Despite this, no coach has yet led the Cardinals to the Super Bowl. (optional reword) Despite this, no coach has yet to lead the Cardinals to the Super Bowl.
  • Ernie Nevers and Jimmy Conzelman are the only coaches to have had more than one tenure with the team, and Pop Ivy and Gene Stallings both coached the team during its move from one city to another. - these should be split because they describe two different ideas.
  • The worst Cardinals coach statistically is Roy Andrews, with a winning percentage of .000, having lost the only game he coached. - the word "worst" in this context is WP:POV, in addition what year is this?
  • Co-coaches Ray Willsey, Ray Prochaska, and Chuck Drulis are statistically the best head coaches, with a winning percentage of 1.000. - "Co-coaches"? They never worked together, so that doesn't work well there. Also, "best" is also WP:POV. In addition, there is no link to winning percentage.
  • Of the 36 Cardinal coaches, Guy Chamberlin is the only one to be a member of the Pro Football Hall of Fame, having been inducted in 1965. --> Of the 36 Cardinal coaches, Guy Chamberlin is the only coach to be elected to the Pro Football Hall of Fame, having been inducted in 1965.
  • The color in the table should only highlight the coach's name, because it describes only what they did individually.
  • Please see List of Tennessee Titans head coaches and List of New Orleans Saints head coaches for a guide in writing the prose.--SRX 15:14, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
All done. The ones that I didn't do were either because I disagreed with them or because they were wrong; for example, there are inline citations in the lead. The first one references everything before it. Also, the three coaches are co-coaches; they coached the team together. Gary King (talk) 02:26, 7 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Why did you disagree with the color format for the table? In addition, the image size needs to be decreased, it is very large.--SRX 14:29, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
I did the colors now. It looks like it's a recent thing; my last head coaches FL didn't require that. The image size is 300px, which is what MOS:IMAGE (it's currently under discussion, but it's been there for a while and is still there right now, so I'll go with it for now. Also, I prefer a bit larger lead image.) Gary King (talk) 17:25, 7 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - even though there many prose issues, it has been revamped to WP:WIAFL compliance.--SRX 21:12, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
Comment from Killervogel5
Support, all issues resolved. Dabomb87 (talk) 15:56, 14 December 2008 (UTC) [reply]
Resolved issues, Dabomb87 (talk)

Comments from Dabomb87 (talk · contribs)

  • Table needs playoff winning percentage table.
  • "Thirteen of the team's coaches are also former Cardinal players."-->Thirteen of the team's coaches are former Cardinals players.
  • "Of the 36 Cardinal coaches, Guy Chamberlin is the only coach to be elected to the Pro Football Hall of Fame, having been inducted in 1965."-->Of the 36 Cardinal coaches, Guy Chamberlin is the only coach to have been elected to the Pro Football Hall of Fame, having been inducted in 1965.
  • Add (AFL) after "American Football League".
  • "Bud Wilkinson (right) with President John F. Kennedy" Specify that Kennedy is a United States President.
  • Sources look good. Dabomb87 (talk) 01:00, 11 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
All done Gary King (talk) 04:04, 11 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Sources look good. Dabomb87 (talk) 01:00, 11 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved comments from -- SRE.K.Annoyomous.L.24
Comments
  • Since Bole2 never noticed that you nominated this, I'll just go right ahead and comment on the article.
  • I am for sure the Cardinals were never always Cardinal Red and White. Just look at the Chicago Cardinals logo. This means that you should change the colors of the headers to their original color for the teams.
  • Chicago, Illinois is a redirect.
  • Could you tell the readers why you didn't put the coaches before 1920, since you mentioned that they started in 1901.
  • Could you link Cardinal red to Cardinal (color)?
  • Could you tell me why you could link Glendale, Arizona twice?
  • As I said on the FLC nomination for List of St. Louis Rams head coaches, you should only tell the reader who was elected into the Pro Football Hall of Fame as a coach, since the article is only about the coaches.
  • Arnie Horween is a redirect.
  • The article is not wikilinked on the Arizona Cardinals navbox template.
  • Could you put more pictures of the coaches, and also the stadium they are playing in?

-- SRE.K.Annoyomous.L.24[c] 00:24, 16 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

    • Redirects are not bad in themselves, see WP:REDIRECT#NOTBROKEN. I fixed the overlinking of Glendale. The Cardinals have actually always been cardinal red and white, see this link. Pictures of coaches that are properly licensed/tagged are hard to find. There is no reason to put a picture of the arena on an article about head coaches. Dabomb87 (talk) 00:38, 16 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • As an aside, I agree with DB87 on this one. As long as there is one image of a coach, that's more than some lists can ask for. When there are absolutely no other available images, then it's recommended to find another topic-related image to replace one of a coach or manager. In this case, one link should be enough, especially considering the width of the table. KV5 • Squawk box • Fight on! 00:43, 16 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
All issues are fixed I believe. I'm not sure if an explanation about starting in 1920 is needed since it's already explained that that's the year in which the team joins a professional league for the first time. Gary King (talk) 00:58, 16 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Then why did you not include the coaches before 1920? -- SRE.K.Annoyomous.L.24[c] 02:31, 16 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Because the list begins from when it was a professional team. Gary King (talk) 02:33, 16 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
But you didn't tell the readers that the list begins from when it was a professional team. Also about the stadium image, I don't know who, but someone put on the stadium image on one of the articles I nominated for FLC, so I just kept on the trend. -- SRE.K.Annoyomous.L.24[c] 02:35, 16 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I see what you mean; how about this? Gary King (talk) 02:38, 16 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Replying to KV5, since there are no free images to use for this article, then I believe we add the picture of University of Phoenix Stadium? Replying to Gary King, yes that is what I wanted. I also forgot that you didn't tell the readers that the stats are up to the 2007 NFL season. -- SRE.K.Annoyomous.L.24[c] 02:43, 16 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Done. Regarding the NFL stadium image, since there are so many available for Phoenix stadium, feel free to add whichever one you want to the article. Gary King (talk) 02:46, 16 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The current image is free and suffices. KV5 • Squawk box • Fight on! 02:49, 16 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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