Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/Dickin Medal/archive1

The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by Dabomb87 00:01, 16 March 2010 [1].

Dickin Medal

Nominator(s): The Rambling Man (talk) 20:14, 4 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Featured list candidates/Dickin Medal/archive1

I am nominating this for featured list because I just love the subject matter. An insight into the soft head of The Rambling Man I guess. The list, as I found it, was incomplete, but contained some decent starting material. I have made the list comprehensive, added an infobox and an image (with alt text), checked for dabs, made a sortable table of all recipients and, wherever possible, provided reliable secondary sources for recipients. Per my typical preamble, I'll do whatever I can, whenever I can to assure the community the list is of featured quality. I humbly submit it to your good selves and thank you in advance for time spent reviewing, commenting and making it part of our finest work (hopefully)... The Rambling Man (talk) 20:14, 4 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved comments from KV5

Comments from KV5

As I mentioned at WT:FLC, I can't wait to review this list, so I'll dive right in:

Many references to "Alsation"; is this supposed to be Alsatian?
- Yes. I can't speel. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:06, 4 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I would like to see the animal breeds linked if possible, as they provide information for those who don't know, for example, what a wire-haired terrier looks like.
- All linked now. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:06, 4 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I don't know if breed names are supposed to be capitalized or not; MOS:CAP says both styles are acceptable, so I guess we're fine there, unless someone else agrees with me that they'd prefer lowercase.
- All uppercase right now, which happens to be the same as all the pages I visited for each breed. Happy either way. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:06, 4 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Lots of punctuated sentence fragments. When you have two fragments in a cell, the correct punctuation would be a semicolon between them when the periods/full stops are removed.
- Fragments fixed per your suggestion, I think... The Rambling Man (talk) 21:06, 4 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
"assistie in the rescue" - should this be assisted or assisting?
- Yep, picked that up as I was going along. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:06, 4 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
In "G.I. Joe" - "Flew 20 miles in as many minutes, delivered a message" - I think delivered should be delivering, which would make the prose flow better in this fragment format
- Corrected. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:06, 4 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Good work. KV5 (Talk • Phils) 20:34, 4 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, and thanks for your encouragement and time spent reviewing. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:06, 4 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

A big old honkin' support. KV5 (Talk • Phils) 17:56, 5 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved comments from —SpacemanSpiff 17:05, 6 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

*Comments (after (edit conflict))

- Any particular reason that both Alsation and German Shepherd are used? If it's Commonwealth vs RoW, should Sam (army dog) and Lucky be Alsatians? (related: Wasn't Sam part of the RAVC and just assigned to the Canadian Regiment?)
  - Only one is used now, Alsatian... (I was following the PDSA's citations by the way...) The Rambling Man (talk) 21:06, 4 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Should some of the entries be red links as they appear to be notable enough, esp given that they've won the equivalent of a Victoria Cross? (e.g. Salty & Roselle, sorry I just think all Labs are entitled to articles!)
  - That's a good question, one I raised at WT:FLC. They've all won the animal VC, but is this substantial enough to get a link? The Rambling Man (talk) 21:06, 4 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Should the nationality of the animals be included?
  - I would say this is virtually impossible. No information that I've seen states that any of these animals have any specific nationality, particularly the mongrels!! The Rambling Man (talk) 21:06, 4 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Really nice work! cheers. —SpacemanSpiff 20:43, 4 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Thank you. Your comments and time reviewing are much appreciated... The Rambling Man (talk) 21:06, 4 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- And yes, Sam was on assignment, so I've now reflected that in the list, thanks! The Rambling Man (talk) 21:14, 4 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Woof Woof support —SpacemanSpiff 17:05, 6 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Just on a side note, Alsation was the official breed name in the UK for a couple of decades before reverting back to German Shepherd. So any citations given out during that period would have been listed specifically as an Alsatian. Could be worth a footnote (although information is available on the German Shepherd Page, but it would prevent any mix-up with the Alsatian Shepalute which is being renamed to American Alsatian. Miyagawa (talk) 09:52, 5 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Yeah, okay. I'm not sure this is entirely the right forum for notifications about breed name changes, but if it alleviates possible confusion then I'm fine with it. The Rambling Man (talk) 10:17, 5 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved comments from NMajdan

Comments

Cologne doesn't appear to be sorting correctly on the date column. The plain year 1945 is listed before all the other more specific 1945 dates, but Cologne's plain year 1947 comes after all the other 1947 dates. Looking at the code, you have {{dts|1947|unknown}}. I don't think unknown is a valid parameter, so that may be causing the issue.
- Revenge!! Yeah, I'm not sure when I introduced that unknown silliness. Gone now. Great spot. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:14, 4 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Some of the notes have periods, others do not.
- All notes now made consistent per KV5's comments above. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:14, 4 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Ref 11 appears to be dead.
- Indeed, it appears that way. I'll need to get onto it at work as I'm having intermittent results on Safari (as per usual)....! The Rambling Man (talk) 21:14, 4 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Ooh, no, I think I've got it, could you recheck it for me please? The Rambling Man (talk) 21:34, 4 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

—NMajdan•talk 20:45, 4 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your comments and careful scrutiny of both my inability to sort and use of deadlinks! Much appreciated. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:14, 4 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Support.—NMajdan•talk 14:29, 5 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Comment The dates in the table are in MDY format. Since this is a British subject shouldn't they be DMY? Dabomb87 (talk) 22:27, 4 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Funnily enough I think the US folks have more of an issue with this than us Brits, but either way, I've EngDated it. Cheers. The Rambling Man (talk) 22:33, 4 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved comments from ≈ Chamal ^talk ¤ 11:19, 7 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

;Comments

~~Did Rex and Thorn serve with the Civil Defence of London, or is this a different Civil Defence?~~
- The citations mentioned "of London" but they also had just "Civil Defence" for the unit in which they served. I've removed "of London" for clarity, Civil Defence was Civil Defence, after all. The Rambling Man (talk) 17:34, 6 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
~~What's the "Special Service" given for four pigeons? Could you perhaps provide a note, if there's no suitable link?~~
- The citations for each of these pigeons specifically mentions serving in the "Special Service" but goes no further. I guess I have two choices, either leave it and hope you're happy with it, or remove it... The Rambling Man (talk) 17:34, 6 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  - I guess it's all right as it is then. We can't give more info than we know. ≈ Chamal ^talk ¤ 06:24, 7 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
~~DD.43.Q.879 warned of a counter-attack where? I mean, where did it take place?~~
- Manus Island. Added that detail. The Rambling Man (talk) 17:34, 6 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
This is not really a big deal, but is it possible to indicate non-military animals in the table? Being the equivalent of the Victoria Cross, my first impression was that they had all served with a military unit.
- None of the recipients were awarded the medal for anything other than military or civil defence acts. Per the lead statement, "conspicuous gallantry or devotion to duty while serving or associated with any branch of the Armed Forces or Civil Defence Units". Perhaps the confusion lays in the opening sentence about animals "in war"? The Rambling Man (talk) 17:34, 6 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  - Actually, I was talking about Salty and Roselle (I didn't thoroughly check if there were others, but I think they are the only ones), who are neither military trained animals nor associated with them as far as I could see. Or am I missing something here? ≈ Chamal ^talk ¤ 06:24, 7 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
    - Well, I could be synthesising stuff here, but I guess they'd fall under the civil defence category. After all, they acted with gallantry after an act of war on a civilian target... The Rambling Man (talk) 10:26, 7 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
~~Maybe indicate posthumous awards in a similar manner.~~
- I could definitively find a few posthumous awards, the PDSA articles on awards doesn't specify them clearly though, so in my opinion, it's better left as it is. I accept that one or two are clearly defined as being awarded posthumously, however, some clearly were but unreferenceable are. The Rambling Man (talk) 17:34, 6 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  - There's no need to mention it if it's uncertain. As I said, it's not a big deal :) ≈ Chamal ^talk ¤ 11:19, 7 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

It looks like I've created the articles for Sam, Apollo and Commando a long time ago, so I guess I could try to do a few more :) ≈ Chamal ^talk ¤ 16:54, 6 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your interest, and comments! The Rambling Man (talk) 17:34, 6 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Support ≈ Chamal ^talk ¤ 11:19, 7 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: ~~It looks like you have the entries for Ricky and Brian mixed up (http://www.pdsa.org.uk/about-us/animal-bravery-awards/dickin-medal-dogs/).~~ ≈ Chamal ^talk ¤ 12:16, 7 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Good spot, switched round, thanks. The Rambling Man (talk) 12:28, 7 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved comments from Bencherlite ^Talk 18:30, 8 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

;Comments from Bencherlite

As I said earlier, I wondered whether the news of the latest award would prompt someone to work on this, so well done for spotting the potential and actually doing something about it! The following is in no particular order, I'm afraid, just reading through and putting down points as I think of them. Actually, I'm surprised to say that there's rather more that needs looking at (as opposed to "would be nice to have") for a list that has already had three supports(!)

I suggest stating the "nationality" / country of the award somewhere. It's a little unclear, because the infobox says UK but para 3 of the lead says that it was given to three dogs for their work after the 9/11 attacks. Appollo was a NYPD dog; would it be right to assume that Salty and Roselle were American dogs as they were in the WTC at the time? If so, this all needs clarifying.
- I don't know about this to be honest. The "nationality" of any given animal, particularly mongrel dogs, pigeons etc would be pure conjecture. As for "country of award" not sure either as the PDSA don't state where these awards were all handed out, just cites why they were given. Not keen on attributing nationalities/locations.... The Rambling Man (talk) 17:18, 8 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Worth mentioning that Appollo was the first search and rescue dog on the scene, according to your source?
- Not sure really, on reflection. You could "argue" that the Blitz dogs who found survivors of the Blitz were doing the same job... The Rambling Man (talk) 17:46, 8 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
"Salty & Roselle" - can we lose the ampersand? Also "Punch & Judy".
- Les ampersands sont disparu". The Rambling Man (talk) 17:18, 8 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
As you have two lines of two recipients, change the "recipient" column header to add "(s)"
- Yep. The Rambling Man (talk) 17:18, 8 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
You've got "September 11" in the list and "11 September" in the lead (and I prefer the wording of the list here - "9/11" is one of the few US-style date phrases that would never be "11/9" in UK publications, and I think it's more often "September 11" in UK publications than "11 September").
- Made it Sept 11. I think. The Rambling Man (talk) 17:50, 8 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Do notes [A] and [B] have to be in bold?
- No they don't. Now they aren't. The Rambling Man (talk) 17:18, 8 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Third para in the lead has two "subsequently"s in close succession
- One gone. The Rambling Man (talk) 17:48, 8 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Refs 31 and 32 have "pp." for single pages, you need "page="
- You wanna know something? Huh? Do you? I didn't even add those! So I'll fix them anyway. The Rambling Man (talk) 17:18, 8 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
You link Labrador in the list but not the lead.
- Linked in lead. The Rambling Man (talk) 17:18, 8 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
You could consider adding the breed of dog as a hidden sortkey in the "Animal" column
- Nice idea, done that. The Rambling Man (talk) 17:46, 8 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Beach Comber: link to Dieppe Raid?
- Done deal. The Rambling Man (talk) 17:18, 8 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Jet, Irma, Peter, Thorn, Rex : link to Civil Defence Service? (And lose the "the" too, perhaps, for Jet, Irma and Peter?)
- Done that sir. The Rambling Man (talk) 17:48, 8 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
You used abbreviations such as NPS without spelling them out, also the horrible "MIA" and "KIA".
- NPS done, horror abbreviations done, tried to find all others, done deal? The Rambling Man (talk) 17:46, 8 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
And as for "awardee", words nearly fail me... how about "animal to be honoured", thus avoiding overuse in that paragraph of "award" and words derived therefrom?
- Yes. Even User:Dweller thinks I'm becoming, well, native. Fixed in your honor, Your Honor. The Rambling Man (talk) 17:46, 8 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Do you serve "in" a regiment or serve "with" a regiment? A BBC [http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&safe=off&client=firefox-a&hs=5a7&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-GB%3Aofficial&q=served+%22with+the+regiment%22+site%3A.bbc.co.uk&btnG=Search&meta=cr%3DcountryUK

Minor (and many) as they may have been, I'm hoping I've addressed them all with my usual style and panache, including a minor hissy fit about animal nationality. Bring it on. And thanks for your lovely detailed review. Oh, and it was four supports, not three (you didn't look close enough...) The Rambling Man (talk) 17:53, 8 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Neatly done. I still think it's slightly odd for the infobox to say United Kingdom but the lead to be silent on country, but I can live with that (I'll just tell myself that the "UK" field represents the country of the awarding body, not anything else – hey, I've convinced myself!) I'm happy to be support no 5. Bencherlite^Talk 18:30, 8 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  - Thanks. The infobox award template instructions state that the particular parameter in question needs me to "Insert the country of the presenter or where the award is presented", so that's not particularly useful, is it?! I'll opt for the former where the PDSA is a UK-based charity so therefore I'm right, which is of little surprise to me... !! The Rambling Man (talk) 18:33, 8 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
    - No comment... Bencherlite ^Talk 18:35, 8 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.