Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/1992 Major League Baseball expansion draft/archive1

The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by Dabomb87 17:36, 19 February 2012 [1].

1992 Major League Baseball expansion draft

Featured list candidates/1992 Major League Baseball expansion draft/archive1

Nominator(s): – Muboshgu (talk) 22:33, 5 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I initially thought of bringing this up for GA, but was told it works better as a list. I will happily take this to FL status. – Muboshgu (talk) 22:33, 5 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved comments from Giants2008 (Talk) 01:03, 8 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comments –

The second sentence has a couple Major League Baseballs and a couple "major league"s. It's really repetitive reading after a while. See if you can't trim some of it down.
Procedure: If AL is going to be abbreviated, it really should be given the same parenthetical treatment after first usage that MLB gets.
Another "the" needed in "in the first round of 1993 MLB amateur draft".
Results: En dash needed in pitching record here.
The photo captions next to the table could use refs, since parts of all of them aren't really backed up by the table.
Aftermath: "The Rockies payroll appeared to be $4 million". Apostrophe would be good at the end of the team name.
Refs 12, 13, and 19 need all caps removed from their titles. Giants2008 (Talk) 00:27, 7 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Done. – Muboshgu (talk) 02:48, 7 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Support – Meets FL standards. Giants2008 (Talk) 01:03, 8 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved comments from The Rambling Man (talk) 17:03, 11 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comments

"1990 basic agreement" what's that? I'm a non-expert so this should be explained (or linked?)
Background section is a little sparse. Would probably consider adding it as part of the lead, or expanding it quite a bit.
Worth linking free agent and the 1992 season.
What's "Double-A"?
When sorting by round, the Pick column sorts seemingly randomly. Suggest you force that column to sort consistently and as one would expect (i.e. if Round is 1.. 2.. 3 then Pick should be 1.. 2.. 3.. and if Round is 3.. 2.. 1... then Pick should be 72... 71... 70...)
"chose prospects" perhaps this is a specific term in baseball but it seems obvious to me that they picked prospects, weren't they all prospects, i.e. they were picked because it was hoped they'd do alright?
Caption: "an 18 year career" shouldn't the 18-year be hyphenated?

The Rambling Man (talk) 14:54, 8 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

- I've attempted to resolve all of your comments. It is helpful to have your perspective on these MLB pages, since you don't have much knowledge on baseball. Regarding the "prospect" issue, teams could choose whether they wanted to draft prospects, meaning young players with little to no track record and the possibility of emerging later, or more established veteran players. Consensus among the sports writers was that the Rockies and Marlins chose more prospects and fewer expensive veterans than they had anticipated. – Muboshgu (talk) 19:44, 8 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Right, the number thing. I don't know what's happening with that. I'm not sure right now how to fix it. Maybe after lunch an idea will come to me. – Muboshgu (talk) 19:46, 8 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  - I figured it out. Low blood sugar. It's fixed. – Muboshgu (talk) 20:12, 8 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I'm going to be on vacation from December 23 through January 8, so if there are any further comments between now and then, please keep them on ice for me and I'll address them when I return. – Muboshgu (talk) 21:42, 22 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Harrias ^talk

First a quick note: I can see from your comment above that you won't be around for a while: but I figured I'd post my questions while I'm here, and you can look at them when you get back.
A couple of things strike me regarding the "All-Star" emphasis: firstly, what reference is backing that information up? And secondly, when was the player an All-Star: the article doesn't state whether the player had been an All-Star when they were picked, had been an All-Star before they were chosen, were an All-Star for the team that drafted them, or were an All-Star at some point in their career for someone.
In the Procedure section, it states that: "Colorado won the toss and chose to pick first overall leaving the second and third overall picks to the Marlins." but in the table, Colorado picked first, Florida second and Colorado third: appearing to contradict the previous statement. Could you clarify for me please?

That's all from me at the moment. Harrias ^talk 17:04, 28 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

- I thank you for your comments, and understanding that it took me until today to address them. To your comments, (1) I added a sentence mentioning who had been All-Stars in their career, using a reliable statistics website to source that they were All-Stars. I debated discussing it in greater depth (as in who was an All-Star before the draft and who after), but chose to leave it this way so the reader can peruse articles and see when these players were All-Stars. I can change that if it's a sticking point. (2) That comment in the procedure section was an error. The Marlins did not chose second and third, the teams alternated picks. I struck the erroneous bit from the sentence. – Muboshgu (talk) 18:40, 10 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  - Support your comments seem reasonable, nice work. Harrias ^talk 19:20, 10 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Conditional support

The "Position" column doesn't sort correctly. You may need to change "Right-handed pitcher" to {{sort|pitcher|[[pitcher|Right-handed pitcher]]}}.
I can't find it, but I know there's a guideline somewhere about linking every instance of an element in a table. Having all the instances of "Colorado Rockies" and "Florida Marlins" as links in the "Selected by" column is overwhelming. Similarly all the items in the "Position" column.

Other than that, the list looks good. -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 19:18, 15 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Table sorting is fixed.
As for suggesting that each instance repeated in a table shouldn't be wikilinked, I'd need to see where it says that. WP:WHENTABLE shows examples of tables that use the same exact behavior. Other lists that I (Babe Ruth Award, Warren Spahn Award) and others (Kansas City Cowboys (AA) all-time roster) have recently promoted also link every instance in a table, even if it's repeated. – Muboshgu (talk) 18:56, 17 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved comments from Good raise 12:51, 16 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from the baseball ignorant Goodraise

"This expansion draft was conducted by Major League Baseball (MLB) to stock the rosters of the Colorado Rockies and Florida Marlins, new expansion franchises that were set to start play in the 1993 MLB season." – I think there's something wrong here, but I can't quite put my finger on it.

I can rewrite the sentence, but I'm not sure that there is anything wrong with it as is.

Let me put it differently: I don't understand this sentence. Perhaps it's because of my lack of knowledge of baseball. Perhaps it isn't. Until I do, I can't support.

Looking at it again, was that comma supposed to be an apostrophe?

No, it wasn't. I rewrote the lead paragraph in a way that I hope is more clear.

Better, but now the last sentence leads to believe it is referring to another expansion draft than the one this article is about.

Fixed.

~~How about indicating which players became All-Stars before and after the draft?~~

I can do that.

"were All-Stars after the draft" – I'd reword that to "became All-Stars later on" to reduce repetitive wording.

Fixed

~~The FUR of File:1992 MLB Expansion Draft.jpg is inadequate.~~

Can you give me a little more guidance on what the FUR should say?

I can do that.

The FUR should be better now.

Still needs work.

Did it myself. By the way, are you sure it's the right image? The off-page filename says it's from the 1993 expansion draft. Good raise 05:27, 2 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for that. It is the right image. The expansion draft was held in November 1992 for expansion that is considered to have taken effect on Opening Day in 1993 (April), even though the franchises existed as functioning organizations prior to that. Hence the page describing this expansion is 1993 Major League Baseball expansion.

Unhelpful comment Goodraise. I appreciate you're trying to get folks to learn stuff here, but please, be specific with your comments. The Rambling Man (talk) 18:46, 1 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Frankly: No. I'm not trying to be helpful or to get anyone to learn anything. I review lists for compliance with the FL criteria and support if I find them met. Anything more is bonus. Unless I explicitly oppose a nomination, I don't see why I'd have to be specific. Good raise 05:27, 2 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I see. At least we know where we stand with your comments now. Thanks. The Rambling Man (talk) 16:26, 2 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

"Jack Armstrong,[10] Andy Ashby,[11] Brad Ausmus,[12] Vinny Castilla,[13] Jeff Conine,[14] Carl Everett,[15] Joe Girardi,[16] Bryan Harvey,[17] Trevor Hoffman,[18] Danny Jackson,[19] and Eric Young.[20]" – You marked them in the table. Isn't that enough?

I had thought so, but User:Harrias above asked me to source them, and I chose to do it in prose.

Better now.

~~"The Marlins traded Danny Jackson to the Philadelphia Phillies for Joel Adamson and Matt Whisenant" – This is a full sentence, requiring a full stop.~~

Done.

~~"validity of the draft, on the basis" – Unless I'm mistaken, that comma is superfluous.~~

Done.

~~"both teams used the draft to build successful teams over the next several years." – How can they use a one-day event over several years?~~

Grammar corrected

"In the 1993 Major League Baseball season, the Marlins and Rockies both finished 6th out of 7 teams in their respective divisions" and "However, the draft served as the foundation for both teams that helped them to build successful teams over the next several years." Looking at that paragraph again, I wonder, what are the sources for these two sentences? Are they covered in [28]? If so, would you mind quoting it?

I added a source to a statistics website that shows they both finished sixth out of seven in their divisions, as that wasn't properly sourced. The next sentence served to introduce the next sentences, which talk about the successes of the Rockies and Marlins in the late 1990s. I thought about keeping it, but deleted it.

Good raise 16:37, 21 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Revisited. Good raise 20:43, 27 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Revisited. Good raise 17:39, 1 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Revisited. On the verge of supporting. Good raise 18:06, 5 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, now that I'm confident I don't misunderstand any of it, how about replacing the first paragraph with the following? – The 1992 Major League Baseball expansion draft was an expansion draft held by Major League Baseball (MLB) in New York City during the 1992–93 offseason on November 17, 1992 to allow the Florida Marlins and Colorado Rockies to build their rosters prior to debuting in the National League (NL) East and the NL West divisions, respectively, in the 1993 MLB season. Good raise 12:51, 16 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- Really? You'd prefer "...Major League Baseball expansion draft was an expansion draft held by Major League Baseball ..."? The Rambling Man (talk) 12:59, 16 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  - Oops, should have read that one more time... Still, I don't like the first paragraph as it is now. It sounds clumsy. I recommend following MOS:BOLDTITLE's advice: "If the article's title does not lend itself to being used easily and naturally in the opening sentence, the wording should not be bent in an effort to include it". – On November 17, 1992, during the 1992–93 offseason, the Major League Baseball (MLB) held an expansion draft in New York City to allow the Florida Marlins and Colorado Rockies to build their rosters prior to debuting in the National League (NL) East and the NL West divisions, respectively, in the 1993 MLB season. Good raise 13:45, 16 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    - I like that suggestion. It has been incorporated. – Muboshgu (talk) 15:31, 17 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
      - Support. Good raise 16:49, 17 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from another ignoramus

It's unnecessary to Wikilink New York City in the Lede. I doubt anyone who will read this article won't have heard of the city, and the link is of very little value because it has nothing to do with this page's subject.
Major League Baseball (MLB) expanded to add two new expansion teams -- sounds a little repetitive. Can a synonym be used for the first "expanded"?
Each existing club could protect fifteen players on their roster from being drafted and only one player could be drafted from each team in each round. More context is needed. How many players are on a team's roster? I don't even know how many men are on the field during a game!
Did Joe Giradi play for the Rockies and manage the Marlins at the same time? The image caption is really unclear about this
The Rockies' payroll appeared to be $4 million, less than what the Marlins would pay Bryan Harvey This is the wrong tense. Why not "less than what the Marlins paid Bryan Harvey"?
The rest of it, especially the 2 paragraphs of the Results section and the last 2 of the Aftermath section, just goes over my head. But I'll put that down to being up since 4.30am with a teething baby and it now being 11pm.

Matthewedwards : Chat 07:07, 16 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Fixed, other than the teething baby part. That challenge puts FLC into perspective. – Muboshgu (talk) 15:31, 17 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.