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The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was not promoted by Dabomb87 21:49, 24 September 2010 [1].

1972 Summer Olympics medal table

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1972 Summer Olympics medal table (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

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Nominator(s): H1nkles (talk) citius altius fortius 16:14, 9 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I am nominating this for featured list because I feel it meets the FLC criteria. It also follows the pattern and structure of similar featured lists like 1976 Summer Olympics medal table and 2004 Summer Olympics medal table. H1nkles (talk) citius altius fortius 16:14, 9 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Per recommendations by a couple of editors I've made some copy edits to help the article conform to Featured Lists more recently promoted. H1nkles (talk) citius altius fortius 17:58, 10 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comments by Parutakupiu (talk) 23:04, 12 September 2010 (UTC):[reply]
    • Suggestion (up to you to follow): lead images can be increased as big as 300px;
    • As it's not bolded, you can link 1972 Summer Olympics;
    • "A total of 7,134 athletes from 121 countries participated in these Games. They competed in 195 events in 23 sports." — National Olympic Committees (NOCs) is more accurate than countries, since not every participating NOC was a "country". More so because there's an "NOC" instance in the medal table section and no previous spelled-out instance;
    • "Men's indoor handball, slalom canoeing and kayaking all made their Olympic debuts.[1] Archery, while archery returned to the Olympic program after a 52-year hiatus." — Sentences are related and one is so short it's almost asking to be merged to the previous one; plus, you save repeating a ref. Also, mind the hyphen in "52-year";
    • "Absent from the Games were the Rhodesian athletes." — I'd remove this sentence because it's 1) weirdly phrased, and 2) the following text states this situation;
      • All the above done as suggested.
    • "white-controlled" — Hum, you should clear this better;
    • "Eventually African nations..." — Comma after "Eventually";
    • "Three days prior to the..." → "Three days before the...";
      • All above done as suggested.
    • A very disturbing and sad highlight of these Games, but the Munich Massacre is not relevant to this list. I'd remove that paragraph entirely;
      • Interesting, I thought there wouldn't be an issue with including this information since it so colored the 1972 Games. I've removed it.
    • "Athletes from 48 countries ..." — NOCs;
    • "Led by gymnast Karin Janz—who won two golds, two silvers and one bronze—, East Germany..." — Mind the plural forms and the em-dashes;
    • "... to place third place in the total medal count."
      • All done as suggested.
    • "swimmer Mark Spitz..." — Capitalize swimmer (it's the beginning of a sentence);
      • Oops oversight from a previous edit.
    • "It was the charismatic Olga Korbut though, who took the spotlight from Spitz." — A very opinionated statement. For example, Spitz, not Korbut, would be the first athlete I'd mention or even remember from these Games. Is there any reliable source claiming this spotlight stealing?
      • Good point, I've changed the sentence to state that Olga Korbut delivered a memorable performance.
    • What relevance has the basketball gold medal match to this list? I understand perfectly the mentions to Spitz and Korbut, as they made numerous contributions to their NOCs at these Games, but I don't see how the basketball controversy (quite a lengthy mention) fits into the context of this medal table list;
      • True, it has garnered quite a bit of copy over the years but I have been looking for ways to trim this paragraph, this is a good start. It has been removed.
    • "Japanese gymnast, Sawao Kato..." — Remove comma;
      • Done
    • Regarding the images:
      • Link the athlete names in the captions;
        • Done
      • Remove the memorial picture as it does not have relevance to the list;
        • Done
      • Can't you find more images of notable medal contributors?
        • There are more places to look but not much in Commons. Even the pictures of Mark Spitz are current, not from his Olympic performance.
    • The "Notes" section contains refs for inline citations rather than footnotes per se. These should be moved to the "References" section and distinguished from the main sources.
      • I'm not sure I understand, what information would you like moved to the references section? This is the format that I used to reference the Olympic Games article. If the information is incorrectly placed I'll happily move it I'm just not clear on what information should be moved to the references section.
        • Nevermind. Your choice is perfectly right, afterall. I was just used to see the "Notes" sections as a repository for footnotes (as clauses or explanatory descriptions), not for specific citations of a more general source. Don't mind this, sorry. Parutakupiu (talk) 23:24, 13 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
    • The Sports Reference citations should have "Kubatko, Justin" as author, and "Olympics at Sports-Reference.com" as work parameter;
      • Noted and changed
  • Thank you Parutakupiu for your thorough review and for not simply opposing but making suggestions for fixes. I'll work on the images but there just doesn't seem like a lot out there. I'll see what I can do. H1nkles (talk) citius altius fortius 21:33, 13 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Comments

  • Image caption, would be nice to specify exactly what the radstadion was.
  • "bronze—, East Germany " is that comma necessary after the em-dash?
  • Fixed
  • "This was a sign of things to come" sounds dangerously like POV...
  • Removed
  • ' and captured the global television audience with her personality, which stood in stark contrast to the stoicism portrayed by her teammates." sounds like another opinion, is this strictly what the reference you use says?
  • Removed a questionable part of the statement and moved the ref to the right spot, should support the claim that she was very charismatic and drew a lot of media attention.
  • "The East German delegation ..." caption doesn't need a full stop.
  • "Mark Spitz in 2008, he won seven gold medals at the 1972 Summer Olympics." best case is to replace the comma with a semi-colon.
  • Fixed all above as stated.
  • Ref 6 malformed
  • Sheesh how could I have missed that one.
  • Ref 9 needs en-dash.
  • Fixed
  • Sorting by silver, I get TCH and FRA tied, but TCH above FRA despite the fact FRA had five more bronzes. I don't think this is how it should sort, surely regardless of medal colour, it should sort (a) by medal colour then (b) by golds, (c) by silvers, (d) by bronzes?

The Rambling Man (talk) 21:34, 16 September 2010 (UTC) The Rambling Man (talk) 21:34, 16 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

  • Interesting, when I sort by silver from least to greatest then FRA is listed after TCH but when you sort by silver from greatest to least then FRA is ahead of TCH, this may be a glitch. Unfortunately I'm at a loss for how to fix it.

Thank you for your review I hope the fixes meet with your approval. H1nkles (talk) citius altius fortius 22:29, 16 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

  • Strong oppose. I don't like the intro. Why is Rhodesia overrepresented? Rhodesia, like South Africa, was still segregated in 1972 and yet the International Olympic Committee (IOC) voted to invite Rhodesia to the 1972 Games. Eventually, African nations protested this invitation and threatened to boycott the Games. Three days before the opening ceremonies the IOC voted to rescind their invitation and exclude the Rhodesian athletes. Also, Soviet gymnast Olga Korbut delivered another memorable performance. She entered the Olympics as an alternate on the Soviet gymnastics team, and replaced an injured teammate before the start of the competition. Korbut performed well during the team competition and captured the global television audience with her personality. I can go on with the Japanese example, but the long story short is this: the intro is not about the medal table! It is a collection of almost-trivia facts, that do not fall under the scope of the article. Japan won a notable amount of medals but it is not mentioned. How about the NOCs that won their first medals? Or first gold medals? Or perhaps how well did the newcomer NOCs perform? I might be wrong, but 50 gold medals seems to be a large number. It was the first time (excluding 04 and 08) a NOC won this many, and the first time it was not the host (the other two examples from very early games are from an era when not much traveling was done and not too much interest was shown). Over a quarter of the gold medals won by a non-host is for sure a rare achievement. Why should I care about the life story of Olga Korbut when all these issues are missed? I got all of these in just 5 minutes, which leads me think that there are much more issues that could be fixed. Nergaal (talk) 17:57, 17 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comments
I actually do like the lede generally, and it keeps to the general idea that these tables should not try to replace the article on the Games or individual events.
That said, I'm not a fan of the lede image, as the stadia have little impact in a medal table. Now, when Venues of the 1972 Summer Olympics finally gets written, it'll be a great image.
"took place in Munich, Germany, from 26 August through 11 September 1972." Remember that Germany was a divided nation at the time. These Games were hosted by the FRG, not the GDR.
What is actually sourcing the medal table?
Explain why there are so many more bronzes. I know it is because of Boxing and Judo's no bronze-medal match, but readers usually don't.
I know Bakaava Buidaa was stripped of his silver in Judo, so there is either two silvers in one event, or the total of gold and silver shouldn't match. Either way, this needs explaining.
There were two stripped bronze medals in cycling
The bronze medal match in Football was drawn
The Men's basketball silver... included or not?
These irregularities need to be explained, and my memory and quick research can't explain how the silver and gold totals match when accounting for the Judo result, so check the table carefully.

Courcelles 16:06, 20 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment – Quick suggestion regarding the stripped medal: several other medal lists that have reached FL include a paragraph right before the medal table on any discrepancies. For something of this nature, you could the fact that Buidaa was stripped of the medal and why, along with who gained/improved their medals as a result. If there were multiple medals of the same color in an event, that could be explained in such a paragraph as well. Giants2008 (27 and counting) 00:16, 24 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Just for the record, when the Judo medal was stripped, the silver remained vacant, with neither bronze medallist was advanced to silver. Courcelles 01:03, 24 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]


The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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