Wikipedia:Featured article review/Pioneer Zephyr/archive2
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- The following is an archived discussion of a featured article review. Please do not modify it. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page or at Wikipedia talk:Featured article review. No further edits should be made to this page.
The article was delisted by Nikkimaria via FACBot (talk) 3:46, 26 August 2023 (UTC) [1].
- Notified: Slambo, WikiProject Trains, WikiProject Missouri, WikiProject Illinois, WikiProject Chicago, 2022-03-23
Review section
[edit]I am nominating this featured article for review because of uncited statements throughout the article and some sections which should be shortened or split into level 3 headings. Z1720 (talk) 01:58, 10 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
- Noting that the last assessment was in 2007. From a glance, much of the uncited material appears to have been added by 47.208.11.42 between 2016 and 2019. A glance at the ip's talk page shows several warnings about adding uncited material. While I suspect much of what was added is accurate, it will need to be properly cited. I believe I have some relevant books in my personal library but others at WP:TRAINS will have more resources. Trainsandotherthings (talk) 21:27, 10 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
- Move to FARC no edits to address uncited statements. Z1720 (talk) 23:24, 21 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
- Move to FARC, no change. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 02:48, 28 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
FARC section
[edit]- Issues raised in the review section include sourcing and structure. Nikkimaria (talk) 04:25, 29 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
- I've dug up my copy of The Art of the Streamliner and will see what improvements I can make (I've already made one edit). It's pretty clear if I don't try to save this article, it's going to be unceremoniously delisted. I see some issues with the article's structure, it needs better organization for sure, and some of the prose could do with improvement. Trainsandotherthings (talk) 16:18, 29 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
- I've made some improvements in writing and referencing, and will continue to do so to the best of my ability, but I don't have some key sources, particularly books written with the Zephyr trains as their primary topic, though I do have two books about American streamliners more broadly which cover the Pioneer Zephyr. Already I've had to remove some material that I could not verify, even though I can't definitively say it was incorrect. I'd appreciate feedback on how the article can be further improved, @SandyGeorgia, Z1720, and Nikkimaria: Trainsandotherthings (talk) 19:54, 29 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
- @Trainsandotherthings: An area that needs improvement is the uncited passages that need citations ("Silver Streak" film", sections of "Regular revenue service", sections of "Early Zephyr trains"). Once this is resolved I will take a closer look at the article. WP:LIBRARY might also have some sources that you can use. Z1720 (talk) 19:15, 11 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
- @Z1720: What are our thoughts about trimming detail from the Early Zephyr trains section? I think there's too much detail about the other trainsets. Yes, they should be mentioned, but the primary topic is the Pioneer Zephyr, the OG trainset. I'm also of a mind to eliminate the entire Zephyr tributes in advertising, commercial products, and sports section. Trainsandotherthings (talk) 15:28, 12 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
- @Trainsandotherthings: My approach is that if the information does not directly pertain to the article topic, it probably should not be in the article. I am not knowledgable enough to know what to cut right now, and I trust your judgement. If something is cut that we need later, we can always go back into the article history and readd it to the article. Z1720 (talk) 23:45, 13 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
- Okay, I will look into trimming the article when I get a chance, hopefully tomorrow. Trainsandotherthings (talk) 02:28, 14 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
- @Trainsandotherthings: My approach is that if the information does not directly pertain to the article topic, it probably should not be in the article. I am not knowledgable enough to know what to cut right now, and I trust your judgement. If something is cut that we need later, we can always go back into the article history and readd it to the article. Z1720 (talk) 23:45, 13 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
- @Z1720: What are our thoughts about trimming detail from the Early Zephyr trains section? I think there's too much detail about the other trainsets. Yes, they should be mentioned, but the primary topic is the Pioneer Zephyr, the OG trainset. I'm also of a mind to eliminate the entire Zephyr tributes in advertising, commercial products, and sports section. Trainsandotherthings (talk) 15:28, 12 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
- @Trainsandotherthings: An area that needs improvement is the uncited passages that need citations ("Silver Streak" film", sections of "Regular revenue service", sections of "Early Zephyr trains"). Once this is resolved I will take a closer look at the article. WP:LIBRARY might also have some sources that you can use. Z1720 (talk) 19:15, 11 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
- I've made some improvements in writing and referencing, and will continue to do so to the best of my ability, but I don't have some key sources, particularly books written with the Zephyr trains as their primary topic, though I do have two books about American streamliners more broadly which cover the Pioneer Zephyr. Already I've had to remove some material that I could not verify, even though I can't definitively say it was incorrect. I'd appreciate feedback on how the article can be further improved, @SandyGeorgia, Z1720, and Nikkimaria: Trainsandotherthings (talk) 19:54, 29 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
- I've dug up my copy of The Art of the Streamliner and will see what improvements I can make (I've already made one edit). It's pretty clear if I don't try to save this article, it's going to be unceremoniously delisted. I see some issues with the article's structure, it needs better organization for sure, and some of the prose could do with improvement. Trainsandotherthings (talk) 16:18, 29 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I am leaning delist at this point, I don't have any books specifically about the Zephyrs and nobody else has expressed interest in making sufficient improvements to retain FA status. I've tried to make improvements, and the article is better than it was when it arrived at FAR, but it's nowhere near FA-level still, and I just do not have the sourcing (or the time) to bring this to where it needs to be to be retained. Trainsandotherthings (talk) 15:29, 20 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
- Delist per TAOT. Hog Farm Talk 16:18, 24 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
- Delist per TAOT's comments above. Z1720 (talk) 16:46, 24 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
- Closing note: This removal candidate has been delisted, but there may be a delay in bot processing of the close. Please leave the {{featured article review}} template in place on the talk page until the bot goes through. Nikkimaria (talk) 03:46, 26 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.