Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Wrestle Kingdom 9/archive4
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- The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.
The article was promoted by Ian Rose via FACBot (talk) 13:44, 19 August 2016 [1].
- Nominator(s): リボン・サルミネン (Ribbon Salminen)(ZOOM) and starship.paint ~ KO 04:28, 27 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
This article is about a 2015 professional wrestling event. It has been an FAC three times and failed every time due to lack of reviews. It has also undergone peer review once. Whether you are familiar with wrestling or not, I invite you to share your comments. Plus, I will review an article of yours to the best of my ability if I have not done so already. starship.paint ~ KO 04:28, 27 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- @Good888, Freikorp, James26, Jo-Jo Eumerus, GaryColemanFan, MPJ-DK, Wrestlinglover, and Mike Christie: - notifying all previous reviewers, could you please help out again? Thank you! starship.paint ~ KO 04:36, 27 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Support - I reviewed the version with FA3 and the qua?ity has not degraded since then, SK transferring my support over to FA4. MPJ-DK 10:55, 27 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Support, per my previous review. Prose is fine, sources seem reliable; did not do a spotcheck. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 13:14, 27 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- I'll try to make an image review this evening. I don't know of the subject matter enough to comment on other aspects, sorry! Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 13:53, 27 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Alright, here we go:
- File:Wrestle Kingdom 9.jpg: Non-free, which is appropriate here. WP:NFCC#1, WP:NFCC#2, WP:NFCC#3, WP:NFCC#4, WP:NFCC#5, WP:NFCC#6, WP:NFCC#7, WP:NFCC#8, WP:NFCC#9 appear to be met, for WP:NFCC#10 one may want to go into more detail on how each of the previous point are met - I can tell, but the text ought to specify I think.
- File:Jeff Jarrett.jpg: Free file, using it to show an individual with importance in preparing the event seema OK to me. Caption is backed by the article text. Good EXIF, the uploader has given some information here which makes own work plausible, for the sake of my laptop I am not going to check his other uploads. File exists all over the web in lower resolution, or on a "site suspended" page.
- File:Kazuchika Okada at BCW East meets West.jpg: Free file, using it to show a character in the section on storylines seems OK to me. Caption is backed by the article text. Good EXIF, the uploader has given information consistent with this being an own work on Commons and is an administrator on Commons, some other uploads of Tabercil have the same EXIF. Can't GIS the image as it's too large.
- File:Kyle O'Reilly and Bobby Fish.jpg: Non-own work free file, caption is backed up in the article text. Showing the starting competition in the section for it seems OK image use. Good EXIF, FlickreviewR checked the license, can't check the other uploads by the Flickr uploader though although they seem to be of the same theme. File exists all over the web in lower resolution, one same resolution display has no detail and the other postdates the Flickr upload.
- File:Shinsuke Nakamura at BCW East Meets West.jpg: Free file, own work by Tabercil like the image of Kazuchika Okada. Caption is backed by article text, image to illustrate the person who is the first mentioned in the section seems OK. Same considerations regarding uploader and EXIF as the photo of Kazuchika Okada. This image can be GIS'ed, all other copies seems to be in lower resolution but the seach display appears to be broken.
- File:Hiroshi Tanahashi at BCW East Meets West.jpg: Another free file by Tabercil, same considerations as the other two in regards to EXIF and uploader. I note the change from active to passive voice in the caption vis-a-vis the article text; showing Tanahashi in a section where he is explicitly mentioned seems OK. GIS doesn't seem to work.
- File:BULLET CLUB 2015.JPG: Free file, showing a follow up event in the section on aftermats seems fine to me. Caption is backed by article text. Good EXIF that matches othe ruploads during that time of the uploader, another file uploaded by the uploader was tagged for deletion and kept on Commons because no reason for doubting the license of the file was given. Other uploads are also about pro wrestling. File exists elsewhere on the web in lower resolution, one same resolution image postdates the upload and the other apparently references a source also postdating the upload.
All files seem to have good ALT text. Pardon for the somewhat copyvio-paranoid approach to individual files.Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 21:12, 27 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- @Jo-Jo Eumerus: - thank you for the detailed image reviews. You don't need to apologize for the thorough check! I have updated the description for File:Wrestle Kingdom 9.jpg. Is there anything else that should be changed? starship.paint ~ KO 12:44, 28 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Well, I did analyze the uploaders and their contributions quite extensively. One could consider that paranoid or bad faith-y. Anyhow, the updated non-free use rationale seems good to me.Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 12:55, 28 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Whatever floats your boat LOL. Thanks! starship.paint ~ KO 13:05, 28 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Wrestlinglover Review
- Support No more important issues left to me--WillC 06:40, 18 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Lead
- "Wrestle Kingdom 9 in Tokyo Dome" - Was it just in Tokyo Dome or was it in the Tokyo Dome? Just for grammar sake.
- It's "in Tokyo Dome". リボン・サルミネン (Ribbon Salminen)(ZOOM) 11:36, 10 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- "produced by New Japan Pro Wrestling (NJPW) " → "produced by the New Japan Pro Wrestling (NJPW) promotion"
- "group began wrestling at Noah events from the week after Wrestle Kingdom 9." → "group began wrestling at Noah events starting the week after Wrestle Kingdom 9."
- "The event was attended by 36,000 fans." → "The event was attended by 36,000 people" or "There were 36,000 people in attendance."
- "Wrestle Kingdom 9 in Tokyo Dome" - Was it just in Tokyo Dome or was it in the Tokyo Dome? Just for grammar sake.
- Background
- "Wrestle Kingdom 9 was announced on August 10, 2014, to take place at the Tokyo Dome on January 4, 2015." → "Wrestle Kingdom 9 was announced on August 10, 2014, and scheduled to be held at the Tokyo Dome on January 4, 2015."
- Storylines
- " on October 13, 2014, at the NJPW King of Pro-Wrestling event" - Remove comma
- Not accoding to MOS:DATEFORMAT. リボン・サルミネン (Ribbon Salminen)(ZOOM) 11:36, 10 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- "November 8, 2014, NJPW Power Struggle show." - Remove secondary comma
- "A previous singles match between Nakamura and Ibushi during the 2013 G1 Climax was ranked the "Best Bout of the Year" by the Tokyo Sports newspaper." - Not sure why this is relevant to this event at all.
- Because the WK9 match received 2015 Pro Wrestling Match of the Year from Observer readers. The 2013 match also received accolades, so it is worth highlighting. starship.paint ~ KO 13:28, 10 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- "were booked together at Wrestle Kingdom 9." - Kind of jargony
- Changed. starship.paint ~ KO 13:28, 10 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- "January 4, 2014, NJPW Wrestle Kingdom 8," - Comma
- "and the two former high-school classmates named their team "Meiyu Tag"" - Backstory not needed here. Just that they teamed. High school is irrelevant
- It's relevant when you consider (meiyu means "sworn brothers" in Japanese)...? starship.paint ~ KO 13:31, 10 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- " on October 13, 2014, at the NJPW King of Pro-Wrestling event" - Remove comma
- Pre-show
- " Tama Tonga scored the first elimination, of Captain New Japan. " - Awkward wording. Explain he threw him over the top rope. Shows how people are eliminated.
- Link New Japan Rumble to battle royale
- Undercard
- "The first match of the pay-per-view show" - Change to PPV show or just remove PPV
- "a 3D from Tencozy and a Kokeshi diving headbutt from Honma" - Tencozy isn't mentioned prior so lost as to whether this is one or multiple people
- They were mentioned in the Storylines section. starship.paint ~ KO 13:40, 10 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Some references to titles belonging to the wrestlers. I'd switch them from "his" and "theirs" to just "the". No one owns the belts. Kind of misleading.
- Main event matches
- No issues found. I'll check more later.
- Reception
- Aftermath
- Results
- Personally I'd capitalize the match names. They are official match names afterall. Otherwise, everything looks in order.
- I'm against this stylistically. The PWTorch source for times in that section didn't capitalize them in the report either. starship.paint ~ KO 13:42, 10 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Personally I'd capitalize the match names. They are official match names afterall. Otherwise, everything looks in order.
- See also
- It has everything I could think to include. You got the right links and all the necessary portals.
- Notes
- Looks good until I read the article. This is useful and I like the inclusion.
- References
- First reference is used way too much
- It's the primary source, NJPW. In this case the primary source is the most reliable source for official things like official match times, official attendance etc. starship.paint ~ KO 09:20, 30 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Credentials for pro wrestling dot net please
- It was listed in our style guide as a reliable source following this discussion. リボン・サルミネン (Ribbon Salminen)(ZOOM) 17:02, 29 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Ref 24, 42, 43, and 45 are used an awful lot
- 24 is a preview of the incoming storylines, since there are multiple storylines this is used a lot. 42, 43 and 45 source what happens in each match. Since there are multiple matches, these sources are used a lot. starship.paint ~ KO 09:22, 30 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Beyond the above, all other references check out and I see no other issues but these.
- First reference is used way too much
- External links
- An aesthetic issue, but I'd rewrite GFW link to look more professional
- Check it out. starship.paint ~ KO 09:27, 30 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- An aesthetic issue, but I'd rewrite GFW link to look more professional
- Images
- No issues I can see of at this time.--WillC 07:27, 10 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- I've said it time and time again that I'd review this article and if it isn't one thing it is 7 that prevents me from upholding that statement. I will complete the review this time so that this can finally be an FA. This is reminding me of Lockdown (2008).--WillC 08:39, 29 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Why is "using a source too much" an issue? リボン・サルミネン (Ribbon Salminen)(ZOOM) 16:38, 29 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Same argument as Wikipedia:Citation overkill is trying to make.--WillC 05:39, 30 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Sorry but that refers to an over abundance of citations for ONE sentence, not multiple uses of the same source doesn't it? I did not think that is what you said? MPJ-DK 09:06, 30 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- I was quoting the argument, not the policy. The argument is basically using a few references to source an article hurts its professionalism and style. Same idea. Using the same source 27 times makes it look under reported and kind of not notable. I've dealt with the issue being brought up in FA and FL but I couldn't remember what was referenced. I found that and it basically had the same argument so I directed to that area.--WillC 04:34, 3 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- I have changed some and will do more when I am free. starship.paint ~ KO 01:55, 4 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- @Wrestlinglover: - done, 11 is now the most times a source is cited. starship.paint ~ KO 02:40, 4 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- I was quoting the argument, not the policy. The argument is basically using a few references to source an article hurts its professionalism and style. Same idea. Using the same source 27 times makes it look under reported and kind of not notable. I've dealt with the issue being brought up in FA and FL but I couldn't remember what was referenced. I found that and it basically had the same argument so I directed to that area.--WillC 04:34, 3 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Sorry but that refers to an over abundance of citations for ONE sentence, not multiple uses of the same source doesn't it? I did not think that is what you said? MPJ-DK 09:06, 30 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Same argument as Wikipedia:Citation overkill is trying to make.--WillC 05:39, 30 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Why is "using a source too much" an issue? リボン・サルミネン (Ribbon Salminen)(ZOOM) 16:38, 29 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Thank you WillC. So there are 7 things keeping you from reviewing? At first I thought you meant reference 7. I agree with MPJ-DK's view of citation overkill. starship.paint ~ KO 09:23, 30 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Apartment hunting, house construction, school, other tasks, bills, family, etc. Statement for citation stuff is above.--WillC 04:34, 3 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- @Wrestlinglover: - our replies are above! starship.paint ~ KO 13:35, 2 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- @Wrestlinglover: - thank you for the review. I believe we have addressed/replied to your comments! starship.paint ~ KO 13:44, 10 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- I will check shortly and add the last two sections if I see any issues. So far, it looks like all concerns are addressed.--WillC 08:28, 12 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- @Wrestlinglover: - thank you for the review. I believe we have addressed/replied to your comments! starship.paint ~ KO 13:44, 10 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Support. Article is neutral, well written, and everything is cited to reliable sources. I'm really not familiar with wrestling, so I won't try to give a full review, but it looks like it meets the FA criteria to me. White Arabian Filly Neigh 15:05, 3 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- GaryColemanFan Review
- Lead
In the first sentence, I would add a comma after "event" to clarify that the event, not the promotion, took place at the given time and place.It seems odd to use "24th" instead of "twenty-fourth". Is this standard?- WP:SPELL09 and WP:ORDINAL seem to indicate this is acceptable for integers over 9. This may help non-English readers. starship.paint ~ KO 01:28, 12 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Per Dash#Relationships and connections, it looks like an en dash should be used instead of a hyphen in "A Tanahashi-Okada heavyweight title match".Same for "Ibushi-Nakamura match".
- Background
Same as above for "24th"- See above. starship.paint ~ KO 01:28, 12 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
**"Wrestle Kingdom 9 was announced on August 10, 2014, and scheduled to be held at the Tokyo Dome on January 4, 2015." - Including the second date is confusing. It's unclear if the company decided on January 4 to hold it at the Tokyo Dome, or if the company decided to hold a January 4 event at the Tokyo Dome. This also leads to confusing with "That day" in the next sentence (which should also be followed by a comma).
- Rephrased. starship.paint ~ KO 06:43, 13 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
"Before the event the GFW broadcasts experienced setbacks." - comma after "event"
- Storylines
"Kota Ibushi entered the ring, assaulted Nakamura and issued a title challenge;" - I guess it's personal preference, but I would put a comma after "Nakamura"."ranked the "Best Bout of the Year"" - no need for the "the" before "Best""the IWGP Tag Team Championship with Doc Gallows and Karl Anderson" - comma after "Championship""In December Goto and Shibata" - comma after "December""one between former mixed martial artists Sakuraba and Suzuki-gun leader Minoru Suzuki and a tag team match" - I would use a comma after "Suzuki" for clarity.I would wikilink "eight-man tag team match" to Professional wrestling tag team match types#Multiple man teamed matches."represented by Iizuka, Shelton X Benjamin and the Killer Elite Squad" - again, personal preference, but I would use a comma after "Benjamin" -- even more so with this one, as the combination of people, tag teams, and stables mentioned in the article could be unclear without the Oxford comma."NJPW-GFW partnership" - en dash"Jeff Jarrett joined Bullet Club" - "Bullet Club" has been preceded by "the" in every other mention"six-man tag team match" - this could be linked the same as above, but it seems less necessary if the eight-man match is already linked- Linked for clarity starship.paint ~ KO 01:30, 12 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Event
"pinfall, submission, disqualification or being thrown out of the ring" - Oxford comma after "disqualification""Great Kabuki, Yoshiaki Fujiwara and Hiro Saito" - same after "Fujiwara""Time Splitters (Alex Shelley and Kushida) and the Young Bucks" - same after "Kushida"- "Romero hit the Forever Clothesline" -
"hit" sounds informal, andis it standard to italicize move names? Italicizing English terms seems unnecessary and distracting.- Changed "hit" to "performed". Italicizing move names is to standardize with In wrestling sections of wrestlers where their move names are italicized. starship.paint ~ KO 01:38, 12 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
"the pin was broken up at two" - this could be a confusing statement to non-fans -- perhaps "the three-count for the pinfall was broken up at two" (or something like that)- Reworded. starship.paint ~ KO 01:38, 12 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
"a backbreaker and diving knee drop on Shelley, a double arm DDT and wheelbarrow suplex on Matt and a super falcon arrow" - comma after "Matt" for clarity"O'Reilly pinned Koslov a second time" - I don't understand "a second time" -- the first time being the unsuccessful attempt? When I see that someone pinned someone, I assume it means for a three-count.- Removed "a second time" starship.paint ~ KO 01:38, 12 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
"Bad Luck Fale, Jeff Jarrett and Yujiro Takahashi" - Oxford comma after "Jarrett""Hiroyoshi Tenzan, Satoshi Kojima and Tomoaki Honma" - same after "Kojima""guitar shot meant for Honma, a 3D from Tencozy and a Kokeshi" - same after "Tencozy""Davey Boy Smith Jr., Lance Archer, Shelton Benjamin and Takashi Iizuka opposing Toru Yano and Pro Wrestling Noah representatives Naomichi Marufuji, Mikey Nicholls and Shane Haste" - same and same"powerbomb of Nicholls, Archer's chokeslam of Haste and Benjamin's super overhead belly-to-belly throw" - same"low blow by Yano, a double-team gorilla press slam by TMDK and a Tiger Uppercut knee lift" - same
**"by Marufuji which pinned Iizuka" - "which" seems like a strange word choice
- Elaborated. starship.paint ~ KO 06:43, 13 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
"knockout, submission or referee stoppage" - Oxford comma
**"Sakuraba used a kimura lock on the entrance ramp" - during the match, or as Suzuki was coming to the ring?
- Explained. During the match. starship.paint ~ KO 06:43, 13 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
"kicks, stomps and a cross armbreaker hold" - Oxford comma
**"he lost consciousness, when the referee stopped the match" - seems like it should be "and" or "at which point" instead of "when"
- Changed. starship.paint ~ KO 06:45, 13 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
...powerbombs and German suplexes" - Oxford comma"bicycle knee strike and the One Winged Angel" - same"but after Goto tagged in Shibata all four men" - comma after "Shibata""When Styles returned to the ring after a 19 count" - how long is a countout in this promotion? I don't know how to put the answer into the article--I'm mostly just curious? Is a 20-second count standard in Japan?- Yes, a 20-count. リボン・サルミネン (Ribbon Salminen)(ZOOM) 22:12, 11 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Main event matches
"reverse powerslam and the Boma Ye knee strike" - Oxford comma"an elevated sit-out powerbomb and a double stomp to the chest" - same"Heavy Rain (Death Valley driver) on the entrance ramp and the D.I.D. submission" - same"Okada rolled through for a Tombstone piledriver which Tanahashi countered" - I would use a comma after "piledriver""series of dragon-screw legwhips and three High Fly Flows" - Oxford comma
- Reception
"Jason Namako of Wrestleview.com" - It was just Wrestleview in the previous sentence. Is there a difference?- No, synchronized. starship.paint ~ KO 01:47, 12 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
"James Caldwell of the Pro Wrestling Torch Newsletter..." The last two quotations in this paragraph are introduced with colons, which makes it feel kind of disjointed. Could one of the quotations be worked more naturally into the prose (e.g. "The IWGP Heavyweight Championship match received five stars, with Caldwell stating, "There's nothing better...)- Done earlier. starship.paint ~ KO 06:56, 13 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
"cut through the language barrier" for American wrestling fans and likened" - a comma after "fans" would help"Powell described the following matches as overtaking each other as the night's best as the event progressed: the "very physical" Ishii-Makabe, then Naito-Styles, then Ibushi-Nakamura" - en dashes, and "the following" sounds a bit strange--perhaps "several"?- Changed. starship.paint ~ KO 01:47, 12 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
"Philly.com" was capitalized earlier; this should be consistent"openly crying after his loss to Tanahashi" in a main event which was "just as much a spectacle" - I would use a comma after "event" or use "that" instead of "which"."He wrote that to call the Nakamura-Ibushi match" - en dash- Changed. starship.paint ~ KO 01:47, 12 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Aftermath
"Bullet Club captured two more titles" - Are they referred to as both "Bullet Club" and "The Bullet Club"?- NJPW never uses the definite article, but Americans like to use it. In this article it is only used in running text where necessary. リボン・サルミネン (Ribbon Salminen)(ZOOM) 22:12, 11 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
"with the Young Bucks winning the IWGP Junior Heavyweight Tag Team Championship and Doc Gallows and Karl Anderson defeating Hirooki Goto and Katsuyori Shibata" - comma after "Championship" for clarity"where he defeated Fale, which was followed by him defeating Styles" - personal preference, but I'd use something more like "which he followed with a victory over Styles...""The day after the event he was scheduled" - comma after "event""After the event the eight Suzuki-gun members" - comma after "event""and by March 15 the group" comma after "15""GHC Junior Heavyweight Champion and El Desperado" - Oxford comma"Tama Tonga and Yujiro Takahashi" - same
- Results
Oxford commas (match 2, match 3 [x2], and match 4)
- Images
Things look good, but I've always been told that image captions that are complete sentences should end with periods (i.e. all of the images from "Main event matches" to the bottom").
Overall, the article is really well written. I have no concerns about neutrality, stability, etc. A bunch of the commas are optional, but some seem necessary for the reader to understand easily. GaryColemanFan (talk) 21:35, 11 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- @GaryColemanFan: - thank you very much for the review. I believe we have replied to all your comments! :) starship.paint ~ KO 01:50, 12 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Thanks for the quick response. I've struck everything that's definitely dealt with. There are a few small things that I've left for now. I looked through some other featured wrestling content, and the italicization of English move titles doesn't seem to be standard--this may be a question to as the Wikiproject about. I'm out of town for the weekend, but I'll take my laptop with me so that we can change or discuss the remaining concerns. GaryColemanFan (talk) 06:06, 12 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Okay GaryColemanFan ! I've edited per your comments that I missed earlier, and brought up the last issue at WT:PW starship.paint ~ KO 06:57, 13 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I've struck everything except the move names, and I'll wait to see how that discussion goes. I know that FACs are often closed in the middle of discussion with no warning, though, so I will Support. The remaining issue is not serious enough to prevent promotion, and I am confident that we will follow up when the discussion at WT:PW has run its course. GaryColemanFan (talk) 15:19, 14 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Support I agree with Gary and Ribbon that the italicizing of English move titles is strange, regardless this is up to WP:FA quality.LM2000 (talk) 11:15, 18 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Closing note: This candidate has been promoted, but there may be a delay in bot processing of the close. Please see WP:FAC/ar, and leave the {{featured article candidates}} template in place on the talk page until the bot goes through. Ian Rose (talk) 13:44, 19 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.