Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/William Calcraft/archive1

The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by SandyGeorgia 21:39, 16 September 2010 [1].

William Calcraft

Featured article candidates/William Calcraft/archive1

Nominator(s): Malleus Fatuorum 18:39, 9 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Here's a little something to cheer everyone up, a jolly little article on one of the most prolific and perhaps most incompetent British hangmen there's ever been. He liked to make a show out of his public executions, which were sometimes attended by crowds of up to 30,000, so he didn't want his victims to die too quickly. Instead, after he'd released the trapdoor, he'd perhaps swing on their legs, or climb on their shoulders, to entertain the spectators. Malleus Fatuorum 18:39, 9 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Comment—a dab link to cobbler, no dead external links. Ucucha 18:45, 9 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- There isn't really a good article to link it to, but rather than delete the link I've redirected it to shoemaking. Malleus Fatuorum 19:01, 9 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
image review Both the images are suitably licensed , so no problems Jimfbleak - talk to me? 15:00, 10 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Support Parrot of Doom 08:22, 10 September 2010 (UTC) Comments - "John Foxton, who had been the City of London's hangman for 40 years" - Foxton's article says that he held the position for 40 years. Are we correct to assume that the two became acquainted shortly before his death?[reply]

"reporting on Calcraft's visit to Dundee in April in 1873 to perform an execution in that city" - that could probably do with a minor copyedit as its slightly confusing to read. I'd have done it myself but I wasn't sure if the dates refer to Calcraft's visit, or the report of his visit.

"In one of the first executions Calcraft carried out at the new Reading Gaol his victim, Thomas Jennings, took more than three minutes to die.[7]" - is three minutes particularly long for such a hanging, considering that the hanged would often be left to swing for hours, to ensure death?

This is probably just my personal preference coming through, but it seems to me that the "notable executions" section might suggest to some that the other executions, particularly those of the Manchester Martyrs, were not so notable. Is it worth perhaps integrating these instances into the section on his career?

Otherwise this is all excellent stuff, and I'd be happy to support. Parrot of Doom 21:51, 9 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Replies

I've not come across any account of when Calcraft and Foxton became acquainted, but as Calcraft was born in 1800 and Foxton died in 1829 it's fair to say that they met towards the end of Foxton's life, but I think there was a tense problem there, in "had been", as he still was when they met, so I've hopefully fixed that.
I've reworded the Dundee visit to try and make it clearer that it was Calcraft's visit that took place in April 1873, not the report in The Times.
I guess that whether or not three minutes is a long time depends on where you're sitting, but the aim was to ensure that death, or at least unconsciousness, was more or less instantaneous. The short-drop method that Calcraft used should have snapped his victims' vertebrae if the knot was correctly placed at the back of the neck and the correct length of rope calculated for the weight of the person to be hanged. Unfortunately Calcraft was often unable to do either, so his victims often struggled at the end of the rope for some time. The reason the bodies were left hanging for an hour or so was to ensure that even if the vertebrae hadn't been snapped the victims would by then have died from strangulation ... I'm sensing that this is maybe too much information. Anyway, yes, three minutes was an unusually long time to watch a hanged man twitching at the end of a rope.
I take your point about Notable executions. I'm not certain now why I thought that was such a great idea, and integrating into the section on his career seems like a plan to me. Malleus Fatuorum 23:32, 9 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Support~~Comment~~: The first line has "was the most famous English hangman of the 19th century..." That's a pretty bold claim. Who says he's the most famous? How do they know? Aiken (talk) 13:34, 10 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Calcraft's entry in the Oxford Dictionary of National Biography says that he was "the most famous hangman of the century". Also, he performed pretty much all of the executions in England for 45 years; his name crops up repeatedly in The Times archive, in accounts of his executions around the country. The Dundee story suggests that he was just as well known in Scotland, so I don't think it's an especially bold claim. I've cited it to the ODNB in any case. Malleus Fatuorum 14:00, 10 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  - Thanks - I think "famous" is a subjective thing and ought to at least have a citation by it. I now support the nomination. The article meets criteria imo. Aiken (talk) 14:07, 10 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Slightly biased support as GA reviewer, with a couple more quick comments:

"It is possible that Calcraft's antics on the gallows may have been an attempt..." - though this is not a "fact", the double expression of uncertainty seems a bit redundant to me
"During his tenure of office the Capital Punishment Amendment Act 1868 was passed, requiring that all executions took place in private" -> "take place"?
Did the Capital Punishment Amendment Act apply only to England or to Britain as a whole? Nikkimaria (talk) 00:48, 11 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Replies

Hopefully fixed the "double expression of uncertainty".
Changed "requiring that all executions took place in private" to "requiring that all executions must be conducted in private"
Scottish law and English law are somewhat different in the details, but Calcraft was an English hangman, carrying out his duties under ~~English~~ UK law. Malleus Fatuorum 01:43, 11 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

You refer to him as a British hangman on two occasions. The reason for my question: "Calcraft carried out the last public execution in England ... Calcraft also carried out the first private execution in Britain under the new law" - this would seem to indicate a British law, but it's not entirely clear. Nikkimaria (talk) 02:03, 11 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

~~Fair point. I'll check that out asap, but I'm going to be busy IRL over the weekend. Malleus Fatuorum 02:19, 11 September 2010 (UTC)~~[reply]
Finally got around to checking this. The Capital Punishment Amendment Act 1868 applied to the whole of the UK, including Scotland. Malleus Fatuorum 14:20, 13 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Sources comment: All sources look OK (even though accepting Jeremy Beadle as "reliable" takes a little swallowing). Brianboulton (talk) 16:29, 11 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Yeah, I know what you mean, sticks in the throat a bit. He did co-author with a historian though. I guess Beadle had the idea and the other guy did the legwork. Malleus Fatuorum 19:17, 11 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  - In his "real" life Beadle was a fairly well-respected researcher, and one of the editors of the original The People's Almanac (and bizarrely, owned one of the world's largest collections of historic pornography). Seeing him cited doesn't jar nearly as much as seeing Brian "Things Can Only Get Better" Cox appointed Professor of Physics at UMIST. – iridescent 18:15, 16 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Support - very nice — Rlevse • Talk • 00:48, 13 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.