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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was not promoted by SandyGeorgia 23:47, 23 September 2010 [1].

The Tale of Timmy Tiptoes

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The Tale of Timmy Tiptoes (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

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Nominator(s): Susanne2009NYC (talk) 04:02, 7 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I am nominating this for featured article because I believe it meets FA criteria. Susanne2009NYC (talk) 04:02, 7 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment—no dab links, no dead external links. Ucucha 04:08, 7 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment—2c is consistent and complete. 1c: No concerns, I google scholared the last 20 years and checked the two leading articles. Articles regarding this specific text are rare Fifelfoo (talk) 09:32, 12 September 2010 (UTC) improvement: suggest you consult Underhill (2002) DOI: 10.1111/j.1754-8845.2002.tb00755.x regarding commodification and Timmy. Fifelfoo (talk) 04:33, 7 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Have entered a commodification section using other sources.

I'd love to see some Beatrix Potter FAs, not least because it'd give me something else to put in Portal:Cumbria!

  • "and grows so fat eating nuts stored in the tree that he cannot leave the tree via the woodpecker hole by which he entered" A little awkward
  • "characters nor provide an" nor do they?
  • "Potter's greatest books" Not very NPOV
  • "and are accounted the reasons" Not sure this makes sense- as the reasons, maybe? As some of?
  • "she managed to squeeze out" Not very encyclopedic
  • "there about 1900." Around?
  • "squirrels in the zoo" Which zoo?
Have yet to find anything specific on this. Likely, the LZG but without a citation cannot enter.
No further info.
  • "a specimen in the zoo." Again.
  • "Potter revised the tale's lengthy text" You haven't actually mentioned any text yet.
  • "expressed some doubts about the effectiveness of the bird calls until she could see them in print," Not clear what this means, sorry
  • "and most of the illustrations" Again, you're yet to mention any illustrations
Working on this.
Believe this is now satisfactory.
  • "her London publisher, from her parents' holiday home, Lindeth Howe, in Windermere in July 1911." The end of a very long sentence. I think it's missing a comma, but perhaps you could split the sentence?
  • "a few minor alterations" Do we know what they are?
  • "her last books were below par." Again, not so neutral.
  • "Timmy and Goody are gathering nuts." Repetition of "nuts".
  • "same hole that Timmy had been forced into" Same hole into which Timmy had been forced by the other squirrels.
  • It's not clear why the chipmunk refuses to leave?
It's not clear in the tale, and I've found nothing in the commentaries.
Nothing on this.
  • "Timmy and Goody now keep their nut cache secured with a padlock." What, even today? :p

I wonder whether there may be more sources to be found, more to be said about the subject. It's well researched and written, there's no doubt about that- nice job. J Milburn (talk) 21:19, 7 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Susanne2009NYC, pls see the WP:FAC instructions; rather than using templates and striking reviewer comments, and extending the length of the FAC, you can simply add commentary at the end of reviewer comments when you are done. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 00:50, 8 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I've struck the issues you dealt with. The text's looking much better already- the first section is now much clearer, and much more detailed. I also feel the last section could be stronger if criticism was arranged by theme (plot, illustrations, etc) rather than by author. J Milburn (talk) 12:21, 8 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you! I'm dealing with last few unresolved issues, looking here and there. I've rewritten the plot to incorporate some of Potter's text and have broken the last section down by themes. I'm trying to locate two academic articles about Potter and her techniques that may enhance the article. Susanne2009NYC (talk) 07:16, 9 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Have a commodification section at article's end with two images but I'm not sure these are acceptable. Uploading images is complicated and I have little experience with this. I did what I thought was correct. However, if the images have to go, then they have to go. Susanne2009NYC (talk) 08:56, 12 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I'm afraid none of the newly added images (the book, the biscuit tin or the ornament) are OK. While the artwork on the book and the tin are PD, meaning it would be alright to upload photos of them, the photos are still copyrightable. As for the ornament, that is an artistic work in its own right, and so, as well as the fact the photographer can claim copyright, someone will have the copyright of the ornament itself. I will remove those images for you; if you give me permission, I will delete them off the bat, otherwise I will have to nominate them for deletion. J Milburn (talk) 09:49, 12 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Please remove them. I'm sorry I've made so much work for you.

Just having a quick read through again-

  • "have found their way to market shelves over the years" could be rephrased.
Done.
Have linked to Royal Doulton
  • "Timmy Tiptoes merchandise includes variously posed figurines of Timmy alone and Timmy and Goody together modelled by Beswick Pottery and Royal Albert, a Beswick figurine of Chippy Hackee suffering from his head cold, a 1989 Schmid Christmas ornament depicting Timmy and Goody under their umbrella, and a 1996 nut canister from Warne illustrated with scenes from the tale and appropriate captions." Do you have a source for any of this? That stuff must be collectable- there'll presumably be books or websites out there detailing them.
Not yet. I pulled the items from a "Timmy Tiptoes" search on ebay. I've found a Beatrix Potter collectables guide.
Reference entered.
  • The paragraph on dramatic adaptations seems to be rather padded- could we stick to details about the Timmy Tiptoes adaptation?
Have deleted this paragraph.
  • Further, it would seem that the story wasn't adapted for The World of Peter Rabbit and Friends- if you want to keep a mention, perhaps note that it wasn't?
I'd rather not keep this and, as I recall, TTT was not adapted to the ballet film.
  • Did these characters feature in any of the painting books?
This I don't know. She was working on the Peter Rabbit painting book just before taking up Timmy Tiptoes so it's unlikely there. Possibly Tom Kitten's (1917) or Jemima Puddle-duck's (1925) books but have no sources that state so. I have not seen the 3 painting books.
  • "The relentless flood of ancillary merchandise over the decades has more than played its part in making Potter's tales the rock-solid nursery classics she predicted." Again, not very NPOV
Deleted.

A section on commodification is good, (though "adaptations" or something may be a better title) but it doesn't currently feel like it's about this book so much.

"Adaptations" regarding fictional works I believe is restricted to dramatic adaptations. "Merchandise" I think is appropriate here. Have edited this section to focus on TTT.

J Milburn (talk) 09:59, 12 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

More (and sorry, this is up and down)-

Linked to William Henry Hunt (painter) on the authority of the Hobbs book.
  • "asserts, "Minute" Why the comma?
Corrected.
  • Paragraph two of "illustrations" feels a bit "so what?"- it's not about this book.
Cut.
Fixed.
  • "wear (or not wear clothes)" Close the bracket after "wear", not "clothes"
Done.
  • "(not a cute little storybook house)" Is that a direct quote? The phrase isn't wildly encyclopedic
The source reads "not in a cozy little 'house' somewhere". Revised. Paraphrased the source.
  • "Although she continued to publish into the 1930s, her work depended principally upon decades-old concepts filed away in her publisher's offices and aging illustrations tucked away in her portfolio." Ref?
Will find.
Ref entered.
  • Do we not have an actual publication date? I appreciate it probably didn't work as it does today, so fair enough if not
Have not found one yet and this bothers me but will continue to look.
Have found only month and year.

Hope this is helping.

It certainly is! And thank you so much! Susanne2009NYC (talk) 11:59, 12 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

J Milburn (talk) 10:11, 12 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment I realize it was written with a US setting and for the American market, but the infobox still (I think rightly) gives "England" for country. However, the article is written in US English. I'd get a UK editor to convert it. Johnbod (talk) 03:50, 13 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Neutral Support Spelling: "Potter's artistically successful books were written for specific childen", "Goody is seen in the accompanying illustation", "but apparently in Potter's personal need for a splash of color here and there" (agree with Johnbod about spelling - also "Arthur Gredington, the head modeler", "a 1 and 5/8 inch diameter enameled box"), "the depiction of domestic discord is not typical for Potter nor for children's literature of the period" (replace nor with or); odd sentence "For her earlier productions, Potter had small mammals (rabbits, a red squirrel, mice, a hedgehog) conveniently at home..." (look at the list), "and not drawn from from nature",; '"Who's bin digging-up my nuts?"' needs a sic. Aiken (talk) 22:39, 16 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Done. Susanne2009NYC (talk) 03:56, 17 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Two more drive-by comments-

  • You currently have an empty notes section.
Done. Deleted. Susanne2009NYC (talk) 10:27, 23 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • The merchandise section, while far better, and nicely referenced, has an awful lot of general material that does not seem to belong in this article.
Done. Cut some material. Susanne2009NYC (talk) 10:27, 23 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

This article has been all over the place during the review- it's now completely different. If this fails, do not be disheartened, just work with what has been said, and renominate in a few weeks. I would be happy to review again next time around (or even between nominations if you feel it would be helpful). J Milburn (talk) 23:31, 22 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Indeed it has. I want to withdraw the nomination to continue working on the article, but leaving it in the queue will hopefully draw some useful comments, suggestions, and recommendations about the extensive and daunting improvements the article needs. There are very few children's books listed as FAs so I have few models in putting this article together. The only young children's book I could find was Make Way for Ducklings. I'm concerned Timmy Tiptoes lacks sales figures, number of copies issued at release, total number of copies sold since release, non-English editions, audiobook editions, global impact and similar concerns but in all of the expert literature on Timmy Tiptoes nothing has surfaced. The article would be charming on the main page in the autumn (the season of squirrel and chipmunk nut hoarding and caching) but I don't think it will make it that far. Susanne2009NYC (talk) 10:27, 23 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]


The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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