Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/The Boat Races 2017/archive1

The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Sarastro1 via FACBot (talk) 22:24, 24 October 2017 [1].

The Boat Races 2017

Nominator(s): The Rambling Man (talk) 16:10, 11 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Well it took nearly six months to get this passed at GAN so this can’t be much worse... another comprehensive Boat Races article based on existing predecessors who have been promoted to FA over the past couple of years. As ever will work my little cotton socks off to address any and all comments here. The Rambling Man (talk) 16:10, 11 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Image review

Suggest scaling up the course map. Nikkimaria (talk) 16:33, 11 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Cool, to what? You know there are like 180+ of these all based on the same image size and several have gone through FAC before? Any other image issues? The Rambling Man (talk) 16:36, 11 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
All images are appropriately licensed. Looks like of the other FAs on the races, most don't use |upright=, so that'd make the difference. If you do want to keep the upright you can scale to 1 to match the ones that don't use it, or pick something up to 1.3 for larger. Nikkimaria (talk) 17:09, 11 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Okeydokes, dropped "upright". Thanks. The Rambling Man (talk) 06:06, 12 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Comments and support from Gerda

A rather new topic for me, please excuse possible silly questions, and don't expect me to have read other articles in the series ;) Lead

The lead image is too small.
Yes, it's sub-optimal, but it's that or nothing. I prefer something. The Rambling Man (talk) 18:26, 12 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
made it a bit bigger, Alakzi told me how --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:12, 12 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you. The Rambling Man (talk) 19:23, 12 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
There are many boat races in the world. If the article name doesn't tell us Oxford/Cambridge, the lead needs to clarify that soon, certainly before sponsorship.
There's only one called The Boat Race and that's linked in the opening sentence of the lead, and explained as such. Alt name is mentioned there because it would be awkward to add it later. The Rambling Man (talk) 18:26, 12 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I know FAs where an Alt name is given later, see Christ lag in Todes Banden, BWV 4. Better than getting clumsy, even a translation has been postponed, see Erschallet, ihr Lieder, erklinget, ihr Saiten! BWV 172. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:12, 12 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I'm following a consistent approach to such sporting events, because often as not, it's borderline the common name for such an event, and it's in parentheses so I don't think it should change. The Rambling Man (talk) 19:23, 12 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
"the men's, women's and both reserves' races" - I understand that saying "races" three times would be awkward, but so is this. Do you expect us to know the term "men's reserve race"?
Yes, I do, that's what it's called, although I seem to recall there's an issue outside BritEng with the term "reserve", it may be that we could find a wikilink to make it easier. The Rambling Man (talk) 18:26, 12 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Yes please. I understand the explanation in the body, but this super-short version is not good for someone unfamiliar with the topic. Could you link to below, perhaps? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:12, 12 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I have linked reserve. The Rambling Man (talk) 19:23, 12 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
"Goldie" sounds singular, even Club (which I don't know until hovering over the link) would be singular.
The joy of British English, where we allow English plurals. The Rambling Man (talk) 18:26, 12 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Background

The second para presents rather mixed bits of background, history of women's races, sponsorship, prize money, - could that be organised / fleshed out?
It says all it needs to say as far as I can see, it's been like that for a few previous FAs (see 2015 and 2016), and covers what is necessary without giving undue weight to anything in particular. The Rambling Man (talk) 18:26, 12 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Are umpires and broadcasters "background"?
Yes, because they are all decided upon months and months in advance of the race, so (and as I have for the preceding 180-odd similar such articles) that would be the "background" to the race as far as I'm concerned. The Rambling Man (talk) 18:26, 12 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

That's it for now, thank you for the article. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:52, 12 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Cheers for the interest Gerda, responses inline above. The Rambling Man (talk) 18:26, 12 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

More responses inline, others taken. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:12, 12 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Support --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:41, 12 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Hawkeye7

Support I reviewed this at GA, and believe that it meets Featured Article Standard. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 18:19, 12 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks Hawkeye7, I appreciate you getting to the GAN after all this time, and I appreciate your support here! The Rambling Man (talk) 18:27, 12 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Support Comments from Tim riley

I'll be supporting the promotion of this first-rate article, but first a few minor drafting points.

Except at the start of sentences we usually have a lower case "t" in "the Boat Race", but there are two places, one in the opening para of the lead and the other in the second para of the Background section, where the article has been elevated in mid-sentence to initial capital status.
Yeah, that means I probably need to edit the previous 181 race articles...! Thus fixed here. The Rambling Man (talk) 18:45, 14 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Consistency is the refuge of the unimaginative, as Oscar is alleged to have said. To Hell with the other articles (unless you actually feel like tweaking): it is this one with which we are concerned here. Tim riley talk 18:57, 14 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Unless a merciful oblivion has set in, you will not have forgotten my regular bleats about false titles: "former Oxford rower Matthew Pinsent" is another case of tabloiditis. Also shown on the charge-sheet are "former Goldie coach Rob Baker", "former Light Blue cox Peter Rudge", "former Oxford cox Acer Nethercott" and "long-term coach Daniel Topolski". It drives ageing Wikipedian Tim Riley up the wall.
I've addressed each of those issues, and taken advantage to reduce a little prose redundancy while I was at it. The Rambling Man (talk) 18:45, 14 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The event was threatened with the discovery – this gave me momentary pause. Nothing actually wrong with it, but it might help to avoid breaking flow if you made it something like "jeopardised by".
Rephrased entirely, but avoided "jeopardised" because I have a personal aversion to any word which contains J, E and O in order. Frankly, an abhorrence. The Rambling Man (talk) 18:45, 14 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The article really conjures up the event. I'm not generally all that much interested in the Boat Race, but reading this, I got quite caught up. I look forward to adding my support. – Tim riley talk 18:34, 14 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Tim riley, thanks for your review and your kind words. Hopefully I've addressed your concerns, but if not, of course give me a shout. Cheers, The Rambling Man (talk) 18:45, 14 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Indeed you have. Incidentally, as a Mozart fan I am hoping that this article full of Isis und Osiris will fall to the High Priest Sarastro to promote, but I digress. Very pleased to Support. Tim riley talk 18:57, 14 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Support on prose Comments by Finetooth

Like Gerda, I know little about boat races but found this account to be interesting and clear. I have a small number of suggestions that should not threaten your cotton socks.

Background

The map showing the course of the race includes "Harrods Depositary". Should that be Depository with an "o" rather than an "a"? See listed buildings. I really like the map, by the way.

Yes, it almost certainly should! In the 182-odd articles (all of which are at least GA), that's the first time this has been noticed, so good spot. I'll leave a note for Pointillist who created it, to see if they'd be kind enough to update it, although their edit history indicates they are no longer regularly around. The Rambling Man (talk) 10:20, 17 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

¶2 "For the fifth year, the men's race was sponsored by BNY Mellon while the women's race has BNY Mellon's subsidiary Newton Investment Management as sponsors." - Better if flipped to active voice and trimmed by a few words? Suggestion: "For the fifth year, BNY Mellon sponsored the men's race, while Newton Investment Management, a Mellon subsidiary, sponsored the women's race."

Gladly, I've never liked that. Thus reworded. The Rambling Man (talk) 10:20, 17 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Coaches

¶2 "OUWBC's chief coach was the Canadian former international cox Ali Williams, her first year in the role having been the University of Alberta's head coach." – The "having been" segment is kind of dangling in space, and I'd rather see the four Williams modifiers placed elsewhere. Suggestion: "Ali Williams, the former Canadian international cox, was OUWBC's chief coach, a new role for her; she had been head coach at the University of Alberta." Or something like that.

Okay, suits me. Thus reworded. The Rambling Man (talk) 10:20, 17 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Build-up

Men

¶2 "The second race was much closer, with the result being declared in favour of OUBC 'by a seat'." – Replace the "with plus -ing" construction and flip to active voice? Suggestion: "OUBC won the much closer second race 'by a seat' ."

Tightened per suggestion. The Rambling Man (talk) 10:20, 17 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

¶2 "Numerous pushes from Leander were responded to by Oxford and the latter passed the finish line with 'a lead of several lengths'." – Flip to active voice? Suggestion: "Oxford responded to numerous pushes by Leander and crossed the finish line with 'a lead of several lengths'."

Activated. The Rambling Man (talk) 10:20, 17 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

General

Alt text would be nice.

Added. The Rambling Man (talk) 10:20, 17 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Some of the citations use title case, while others use sentence case. It's probably best to choose one or the other and stick with it. Nitpicky, I know.

Done I think. A lot of stuff like "Blue Boat", "President" etc remains capitalised as they're specific terms in this context, hope that's okay? The Rambling Man (talk) 10:20, 17 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Citation 45 is out of sync. It employs the "citation" family, while the others use the "cite" family.

That's what happens when you let someone else edit my article....... The Rambling Man (talk) 10:20, 17 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The link checkers find no problems with dabs or dead URLs.
No remaining duplinks. I found and removed three. Finetooth (talk) 16:38, 17 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Awesome news. The Rambling Man (talk) 10:20, 17 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

That's all. Finetooth (talk) 23:23, 16 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Finetooth thanks for the review, I've addressed and responded to each of your comments inline above. Please let me know if there's anything else I can do. Cheers, The Rambling Man (talk) 10:20, 17 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

All good. Thanks for the rapid response. Switching to support, as noted above. Finetooth (talk) 16:38, 17 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Sources review

All sources look of appropriate quality and reliability and are consistently formatted. Brianboulton (talk) 15:17, 18 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

That's great Brianboulton, thanks for taking the time to check. The Rambling Man (talk) 18:29, 18 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Closing note: This candidate has been promoted, but there may be a delay in bot processing of the close. Please see WP:FAC/ar, and leave the {{featured article candidates}} template in place on the talk page until the bot goes through. Sarastro1 (talk) 22:24, 24 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.