Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/The Boat Race 2021/archive1

The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Buidhe via FACBot (talk) 9 December 2021 [1].

The Boat Race 2021

Nominator(s): The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 09:58, 29 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

This article is about canoes up the Thames. No, actually, not this time. With COVID still in full swing, a very RARE thing happened, the BR was moved to a different river altogether and was contested behind closed doors. For us oficianados, it wasn't quite the same thing, a pretty much straight race without the infuriating aspects of rowing on the Thames, but it was a race nevertheless, and naturally the best team(s) won. I'll happily address any constructive comments raised here, thanks in advance for your time and energy. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 09:58, 29 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Support

Reviewed this article at GA. Looks good. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 05:37, 30 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Image review - pass

One image, a map. Licensed okay. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 05:37, 30 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
And it was made especially for this article too, with enduring thanks to Amitchell125. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 11:05, 30 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@The Rambling Man: Ordnance Survey maps are subject to copyright --Guerillero ^{Parlez Moi} 12:51, 14 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Guerillero please take the issue up with the creator of the map, as noted above Amitchell125. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 13:21, 14 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Guerillero, I'm pretty sure we're OK—see here. Regards, Amitchell125 (talk) 13:28, 14 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Amitchell125: Awesome. I did some tinkering to deal with OGL. Let me know if you disagree -- Guerillero ^{Parlez Moi} 13:47, 14 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

No problem, whatever floats your boat... Amitchell125 (talk) 15:02, 14 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Support by Lee Vilenski

I'll begin a review of this article very soon! My reviews tend to focus on prose and MOS issues, especially on the lede, but I will also comment on anything that could be improved. I'll post up some comments below over the next couple days, which you should either respond to, or ask me questions on issues you are unsure of. I'll be claiming points towards the wikicup once this review is over.

Lede

You've probably had this asked before, but when you say "the 2021 race", should this not be plural, as there were two races? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 09:36, 31 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I've addressed. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 10:52, 15 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Looks like there were four races. Can the lede not comment on the reserves a bit more? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 09:36, 31 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Honestly? Not really. This year's races, held on a practically straight river, were wholly uneventful (other than the fact they weren't held on the Thames of course), so there' nothing much else to say at all I'm afraid, unless you think I'm missing something specific? The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 10:52, 15 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Prose

the previous occasion was an unofficial wartime staging of the event, which Oxford's men won by three-quarters of a length. - could we get the year this is? I'm assuming this is second world war stuff, but a year would make that a bit more obvious. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 09:36, 31 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Ok. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 10:56, 15 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
It says 1944 later, which could probably be moved a touch up. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 09:36, 31 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Ok. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 10:56, 15 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Only the main men's and women's races were scheduled to take place on the same day, with the women's race around 3:50 p.m. and the men's an hour later. As of March 2021, the reserves races were yet to be scheduled. - unless I've missed it, we haven't commented on the date of the race in the prose yet. - also, the lede comments about the reserves, perhaps the last sentence needs an update. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 09:36, 31 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Fixed. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 10:56, 15 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Link YouTube? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 09:36, 31 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Linked. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 10:56, 15 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Additional comments

Additionally, if you liked this review, or are looking for items to review, I have some at my nominations list. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 09:24, 31 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Lee Vilenski thanks for your comments, sorry it's taken a while to get to them, but I think I got 'em all. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 10:56, 15 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Lee Vilenski are you happy with the response to your comments? (t · c) buidhe 21:43, 22 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

- Hi Lee Vilenski, I was wondering if you felt in a position to either support or oppose this nomination? Obviously, neither is obligatory. Thanks. Gog the Mild (talk) 19:38, 9 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  - Apologies. I thought I had. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:04, 9 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by ChrisTheDude

Echoing a comment above, it seems odd to refer to it as a race (singular) when the article covers four separate races. Even if you disregard the reserves, is it really right to say "The Boat Race 2021 was a side-by-side rowing race that took place on 4 April 2021." when two different races occurred on that day?
Addressed above. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 19:36, 15 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The lead says it took place near Ely, but then the background section says it took place literally in Ely. Which is accurate?
Near. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 19:36, 15 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The Adelaide in Adelaide Bridge is linked in the body but not in the lead. Better to be consistent I would have thought.....?
Added. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 19:36, 15 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
"As of March 2021, the reserves races were yet to be scheduled" - this doesn't match the rest of the article
Addressed above. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 19:36, 15 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
"Alex Bebb is the Oxford University Boat Club (OUBC) president" - is there a way to reword this now so that it doesn't need updating when Alex inevitably stops holding this position?
Done. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 19:36, 15 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Think that's all I got :-) -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 16:44, 4 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

ChrisTheDude sorry for the delay, I think I got to all your comments eventually! Cheers. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 19:36, 15 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Support -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 21:17, 15 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- Just a thought, but "The Boat Race 2021 were two side-by-side rowing races" does read a little oddly, but "The Boat Race 2021 was a side-by-side rowing race" isn't technically accurate. How about "The Boat Race 2021 was an event comprising two side-by-side rowing races"....? -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 21:31, 15 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  - Thanks, done that, of course next up someone will say "yeeaaah, but wasn't it four races....?" The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 21:40, 15 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Source review — Pass

#1: Wrong publication listed.
No, it's The Observer, The Guardian isn't published on a Sunday. Check the URL. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 17:58, 29 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
#5: Might be worth adding something in the "work = " parameter. "The Boat Races"?
No, I don't think that's helpful. The "work" isn't The Boat Races. The publisher is "The Boat Race Company Limited" and that is sufficient. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 17:58, 29 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
#6: Ditto.
Ditto. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 17:58, 29 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
#8: This is confusing. I'd have it link to the source (e.g., with an sfn template). Also, the source should be in a separate section, e.g., "Bibliography".
If you can fix the sfn template when there's no author name, please be my guest. Separate section actioned. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 18:13, 29 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
See these edits: 1 & 2. --Usernameunique (talk) 05:33, 30 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for doing that. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 11:33, 30 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
#9: Link gives me a 404 error. Also, do you have access to Gale? If so, you can pull a free link (e.g., the second reference in George Sidney Herbert).
No error for me, and I tried accessing Gale this evening and my access has apparently now been denied. Feel free to find it there if you can. Otherwise you just have to AGF and we can, if necessary, delink it. It was, after all, in the printed press. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 18:13, 29 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
#10: Same as 5.
Ditto. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 17:58, 29 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
#11: Same as 5. Also, this one omits the "The" in "The Boat Race Company Limited".
Added "The". The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 17:58, 29 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
#13: CBC News can take a link.
Linked. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 17:58, 29 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
#14: Same as 5.
Ditto. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 17:58, 29 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
#15: Ditto.
Ditto. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 17:58, 29 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
#17: Ditto.
Ditto. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 17:58, 29 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
#20: Same as 8.
As above, if you can fix the sfn template to work without an author, please be my guest. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 18:13, 29 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
#21: Ditto.
As above, if you can fix the sfn template to work without an author, please be my guest. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 18:13, 29 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
#22: Ditto.
As above, if you can fix the sfn template to work without an author, please be my guest. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 18:13, 29 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
#23: Both YouTube and The Boat Race should be mentioned in the citation. Also, how about linking to 3:07 in, so people don't have to click through that siren-like noise?
I like the siren noise, and as it's not all happening at 3:07, I'll leave it. I've linked YouTube. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 18:46, 29 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
#24: Same as 5.
Ditto. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 17:58, 29 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
#25: Suggest using the "name-list-style = amp" parameter.
I've done this, but it appears to be personal preference rather than a MOS policy. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 18:48, 29 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
#30: Same as 8.
As above, if you can fix the sfn template to work without an author, please be my guest. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 18:13, 29 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
#31: Same as 5.
Ditto. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 17:58, 29 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
#32: Ditto.
Ditto. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 17:58, 29 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
#33: Suggest using the "name-list-style = amp" parameter.
I've done this, but it appears to be personal preference rather than a MOS policy. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 18:48, 29 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
#34: Same as 5.
Ditto. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 17:58, 29 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
#36: Same as 8.
As above, if you can fix the sfn template to work without an author, please be my guest. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 18:13, 29 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
#37: Same as 5.
Ditto. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 17:58, 29 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
#38: Same as 8.
As above, if you can fix the sfn template to work without an author, please be my guest. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 18:13, 29 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
#39: Ditto.
As above, if you can fix the sfn template to work without an author, please be my guest. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 18:13, 29 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
#43: Work (BBC Sport) missing.
Added as publisher. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 18:13, 29 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
That bulleted source: As noted above, this should be in a separate section. Same point as #5. And what is "Row 360"?
Row 360 are the agency. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 18:13, 29 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The agency for what? Where is it mentioned in the source? Putting it in the "department =" parameter is almost certainly incorrect. Per {{cite magazine}}, this parameter is for the Title of a regular department, column, or section within the periodical or journal. Examples include "Communication", "Editorial", "Letter to the Editor", and "Review". --Usernameunique (talk) 05:47, 30 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
It says it on page 3: "This e-magazine ... is produced by Row 360..." If you have a better suggestion for which parameter it should use, feel free to do so. At the end of the day, the information is what matters and the reader can see this as it stands, regardless of which under-the-hood parameter is used. But if there's a more appropriate one to use, go for it! The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 11:30, 30 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The prominent placement ("The Boat Race". Row 360. The Boat Race Company Limited.) makes it confusing. In ref #34, meanwhile, Row360 is given in the "via = " parameter, which displays markedly differently. Both, I think, are incorrect. In ref #34, the only Row360 affiliation is that the author of the article is a Row360 editor—it thus appears that it should not be mentioned at all, just as a citation to a newspaper op-ed would not mention where the contributor works. As to the magazine, Row360 appears to be akin to when a society's journal is said to be "published for [society] by [publisher]". In such cases I generally choose one over the other, and here, I would choose The Boat Race Company Limited and omit Row360. By the way, it looks like it should be Row360, not Row 360. --Usernameunique (talk) 09:06, 1 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Well, I've removed it. I didn't see it doing any harm in the slightest, but I think way too much energy has already been expended on this already and it's not that big a deal to me in any sense. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 10:13, 1 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

This version looked at. --Usernameunique (talk) 09:21, 29 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Usernameunique I've responded to all comments above, thanks for your review. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 18:48, 29 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

No problem, The Rambling Man. A few comments above. --Usernameunique (talk) 05:47, 30 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Harry

the 166th men's race, with the 2020 race having been cancelled the ", with" construction is ungrammatical, though popular in tabloid subheadlines, and something I pick up in FACs quite a lot. In this case, the sentence works fine without "with", or you can split it with a full stop or a semi colon.
Done. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 09:41, 3 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
There's a big gap between The crews were announced on 25 March 2021 and The reserve races took place three weeks later . Perhaps a date would be helpful?
Done. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 09:41, 3 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
cancelled as a result of the COVID-19 pandemic in the United Kingdom Do we need "in the United Kingdom"? COVID was (and is) a global pandemic.
Well I think it's more specific because not everywhere were sporting events closed down or conducted behind closed doors, this was specific to the UK. And it alleviates any surprise when clicking on the link to find the UK-specific article. It's also relevant because of the impact on umpire's availability due to changes in the tier system, a highly UK-centric matter. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 09:41, 3 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
scheduled to take place on the same day, with the women's race ", with" again. This one I'm more sympathetic to but if it were up to me, I'd replace ", with" with an emdash.
Done. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 09:41, 3 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Something about the sexual assault allegation seems ... I don't know. Out of place? It's a little jarring, especially as there's no resolution mentioned. I'm not sure this is "actionable" though.
I understand. I didn't add that, and I have looked for resolution material but discovered nothing. It appears that allegations were made and that's all there is to say. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 09:41, 3 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Because of restrictions imposed by the university, Oxford had been prevented COVID restrictions or something else?
The source isn't specific. I imagine they were directly related to the behaviour of students during that period of the pandemic, but I can't be sure, so I've had to leave it as per the source. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 09:41, 3 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
CUBC men's trial featured boats The CUBC men's trial featured boats? Or CUBCs men's trial featured boats?
Gone with "The" to be consistent with the women's description. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 09:41, 3 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

That's it from me. Nice work as usual. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 15:37, 2 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

HJ Mitchell thanks for your comments and review, I believe I've addressed and/or responded to each of them, let me know if there's anything else I can do. Cheers. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 09:41, 3 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Support. My comments were minor to begin with, and you've addressed them completely. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 17:12, 6 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you Harry. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 07:57, 7 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Closing note: This candidate has been promoted, but there may be a delay in bot processing of the close. Please see WP:FAC/ar, and leave the {{featured article candidates}} template in place on the talk page until the bot goes through. (t · c) buidhe 21:20, 9 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.