Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Slayback's Missouri Cavalry Regiment/archive1
- The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.
The article was promoted by Ian Rose via FACBot (talk) 27 November 2020 [1].
- Nominator(s): Hog Farm Bacon 02:23, 18 October 2020 (UTC)
This unit was formed in late 1864 during Price's Raid, fought throughout the raid, and then just kinda existed until the Confederate surrender in mid-1864. This passed a GA review in July, and a MILHIST A-Class review in August. As recently as a couple days ago, I had no intentions of bringing this to FAC, but I recently had a sourcing breakthrough that allowed me to fill in a few missing details. Because the lawyer-turned-soldier who commanded the regiment didn't write official reports, unit strengths and some exact dates are a little fuzzy, and casualties are completely unknown, but I think I've collected what's possibly the single most comprehensive register of this unit's story still in existence. Hog Farm Bacon 02:23, 18 October 2020 (UTC)
- Image review—pass
Images are freely licensed (t · c) buidhe 05:35, 18 October 2020 (UTC)
Comments from SG (Support)
[edit]
SandyGeorgia (Talk) 00:02, 25 October 2020 (UTC)
Looking good ... a few more (my time is divided these days :)
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Everything resolved. I know nothing of the sources, trusting the MILHIST A-class review, but will look in again later to make sure no one has pooped on your sourcing. Bst, SandyGeorgia (Talk) 00:54, 26 October 2020 (UTC)
Hi SandyGeorgia, just checking if that was an offer to do a source review - which is needed - before I post it at Requests. Cheers. Gog the Mild (talk) 14:55, 15 November 2020 (UTC)
- @Gog the Mild and Hog Farm: I see very few online sources ... Hog Farm, is there anything you can email me if I undertake the source review? Even if only some scans of book pages, I would be willing ... SandyGeorgia (Talk) 15:56, 15 November 2020 (UTC)
- OOps, never mind ... saved by the Harrias bell! SandyGeorgia (Talk) 15:59, 15 November 2020 (UTC)
- Support with approved sourcing. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 15:29, 18 November 2020 (UTC)
Support from Gog the Mild
[edit]I looked at this at ACR. Let's see what else I can find to pick at.
- "Governor Claiborne Fox Jackson supported secession". Maybe 'secession from the United States'? So non-North Americans know what you are talking about.
- Done
- "At this point, the Confederacy had very little chance of victory." Optional: 'By this point'.
- Previous sentence starts with "by", so I'll probably leave this as is for now
- "leaving the Missouri State Militia to be the state's primary defensive force". Consider "to be" → 'as'.
- Done. Thought I'd already done this, but it was at the Marais des Cygnes ACR. I've done too many Price's Raid articles.
- "On September 27, 1864, Slayback's unit made a minor assault against the defenses of Fort Davidson during the Battle of Pilot Knob; the unit suffered light casualties" Can we avoid "unit" twice in the sentence?
- Sure. Done.
- "suggesting that Ewing's African American soldiers would be massacred in events similar to the Fort Pillow Massacre if the fort fell, as Price might not be able to restrain his soldiers from starting a massacre" "massacred" and "massacre". I suggest deleting "from starting a massacre." It is clear from context anyway.
- Done
- "overinflated" → 'inflated'.
- Done
- "to give up on taking the city and head west." Optional: Use more encyclopedic language.
- *Done
- "to scout the approach of this force" → 'to scout for the approach of this force.'
- Done
- "The unit next fought at the Battle of Marmiton River later that day" Could we be reminded which day?
- Done
- Final paragraph: mention the war ending.
- I've added a brief bit; check if its enough
That all looks good. Supporting. Gog the Mild (talk) 19:32, 2 November 2020 (UTC)
That's all I have, this is a fine article. Gog the Mild (talk) 18:37, 2 November 2020 (UTC)
- Gog the Mild - Replies above. Hog Farm Bacon 19:06, 2 November 2020 (UTC)
CommentsSupport by PM
[edit]I reviewed this at GAN and Milhist ACR, so I may be too familiar with the material to see the wood for the trees, but I'll give it the once over. BTW, I'm glad you've brought this here, I am a strong believer that any article on a truly notable subject can reach FA if it is truly comprehensive.
- in the lead, the phrase "were stationed at different points" implies they were still on duty and under orders, which clashes with the concept that the unit had actually disbanded. Perhaps "were located at different points"?
- Done
- "At the outset of the American Civil War in 1861,
the state ofMissouri was a slave state" to avoid repetition of "state"- Removed
- "commission as a major general" link officer (armed forces) to commission
- Done
- say who John Newman Edwards was
- Glossed
- say Lincoln was the incumbent president
- Done
- "Confederate Trans-Mississippi Department" as it isn't clear what side we are talking about
- Done. I sometimes forget that while Smith and the Trans-Mississippi Department are familiar to me, they're completely unfamiliar to somewhere around 98% of the English-speaking population
- Given Fox has been introduced as the governor of Missouri, some sort of introduction to Reynolds is needed "new Confederate Governor..."? When did he become governor?
- Done, but I relegated the date to a footnote
- suggest "suggesting that if the fort fell, Ewing's African American soldiers would be massacred in events similar to the Fort Pillow Massacre." But this is unclear, was Slayback threatening that he and others would do this, or warning Ewing so he would hold on? This has implications for the outcome, given Slayback's troops didn't detect the Union departure.
- Slayback didn't think Price could keep his army from massacring everyone. I've added this, is this better for understanding?
- "On October 2, while stationed at Union" Union, Missouri? Or is this a typo?
- Union, Missouri. It was linked above, but I've duplinked, which I think is acceptable, given the ambiguity of "Union" in this article.
- "Meanwhile, the Confederates were moving steadily westwards towards Kansas City", do you mean the Confederate main body?
- Done. I also realized that I neglected to mention that Thompson had rejoined the main column.
- "
hittingattacking Colonel Charles R. Jennison's brigade in the flank"- Done
- Because Rector has religious and academic meanings, "Rector Johnson" is confusing unless you add his rank. My quick search indicates he was a major, which makes sense given he commanded a battalion
- Added the rank of Major. I'm Baptist, and we don't have rectors as a title, so I never thought of that possible confusion
- It isn't clear prior to "Shelby then ordered Thompson's brigade to charge" that Slayback's battalion was part of his brigade
- Added, as it was part of Thompson's brigade at this point, although the sources imply that Slayback operated independently from Thompson at Second Newtonia
- link rearguard
- Linked
- "each briefly holding up the Union pursuit" if that is what is meant? if so, then perhaps "then falling back some distance in turn"
- Yes, done. Appears to have been a common tactic of Shelby's, as he also used it in the 1862 Battle of Cane Hill
- "The rear rank contained disorganized elements of the divisions of Marmaduke Major General James F. Fagan" what is a Marmaduke Major General? Or do you mean "The rear rank contained disorganized elements of the divisions of Marmaduke and Major General James F. Fagan, and..."?
- Missing an "and", which I've added.
That's all I could find. Great job on this, it has improved quite a lot since I first reviewed it at GAN. Cheers, Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 06:46, 24 October 2020 (UTC)
- @Peacemaker67: - All replied to above. I've also tweaked the final sentence to better reflect the sources. I personally think that a claim that the unit was issued lances in lieu of firearms has been accepted by at least Sellmeyer is indicative of the entire level ad hoc that Price's Raid existed in. Hog Farm Bacon 19:50, 24 October 2020 (UTC)
- Great stuff, supporting. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 21:45, 24 October 2020 (UTC)
CommentsSupport from Aza24
[edit]Non-Milhist reviewer here Aza24 (talk) 08:12, 5 November 2020 (UTC)
- what do you mean by "raised as", the meaning here seems somewhat ambiguous, raised as in "trained" or "formed"? Perhaps just remove "raised as" and keep "Originally" (using "Formerly" could also work to)
- Replaced "raised" with "formed", as the latter word is going to make more sense to a non-MILHIST person
- Since the riot is in between the dates May 10 and May 12 it seemed to have happen quickly after May 10, maybe change to "A pro-secession riot in St. Louis soon/quickly followed"? Just a random idea
- Riot actually started later on May 10, so I've clarified there
- Another minor thing, you link the armies of the Confederacy/Union and the Confederacy itself, but not the Union (Union (American Civil War)) perhaps add to "retreated in the face of Union reinforcements"?
- Done
- Union, Missouri is double linked
- Fixed
- Shouldn't regiment be linked earlier – as you can see, am I struggling to find things to comments on, lol...
- It should be, corrected
- Surely Lincoln and George B. McClellan should have links? Probably garrison as well
- Thought I'd linked them. Done
- Would also like to see some kind of identifier for George B. McClellan, like how Lincoln has "president"
- Glossed that he was a former Union general
- Since McGee is introduced a sentence earlier, his second mention can simply be "...although McGhee considers that claim..."
- Done. I forgot to update this when I added the earlier mention of McGhee during the pre-FAC tuneup.
- "considers that claim to likely be inaccurate" seems kind of redundant with both "considers" and "likely", although maybe it's just me
- Rephrased
- Really not much to say about the prose, especially in the Service history section, a very engaging read! Aza24 (talk) 08:12, 5 November 2020 (UTC)
- Aza24 - Thanks for taking a look at this, I've replied to all of your comments above. Hog Farm Bacon 19:25, 5 November 2020 (UTC)
- Great, happy to support this nomination. Aza24 (talk) 00:48, 6 November 2020 (UTC)
- Aza24 - Thanks for taking a look at this, I've replied to all of your comments above. Hog Farm Bacon 19:25, 5 November 2020 (UTC)
Source review: pass
[edit]Consistency and formatting
- Rather than "sos.mo.gov" as the work title and "Missouri State Archives" as the publisher, it would seem to make more sense to me to have "Missouri State Archives" as the work title and "Missouri Office of the Secretary of State" as the publisher.
- Done
- Otherwise sources seem to be consistently and appropriately formatted.
Been called away, but will check quality, coverage and accuracy later. Harrias (he/him) • talk 15:58, 15 November 2020 (UTC)
- Harrias - I can email you some scans of Kennedy or Sinisi (although I used a borrowed edition of Sinisi than the one I own, so pagination will be different). Probably a week before I can get copies of the right pages of McGhee, Busch, or Monnett. Hog Farm Bacon 22:53, 15 November 2020 (UTC)
Quality and coverage
- The sources used all appear to be reliable and of good quality. The 1893 Official Records, a primary source, are used sparingly and mostly for attributed opinions of those present. There is one usage, ref #41a, where a quote "melted away" is used without inline attribution; please add that.
- Various searches reveal no obvious missing source literature.
Accuracy: spotchecks
- Ref #4 checks out fine.
- Ref #12a checks out fine.
- Ref #17 checks out fine.
- Ref #31 check out fine.
One minor attribution fix I would appreciate, but otherwise this is all fine. Harrias (he/him) • talk 08:46, 18 November 2020 (UTC)
- Harrias - I've attributed the "melting away" quote. Hog Farm Bacon 15:14, 18 November 2020 (UTC)
- All good then. Harrias (he/him) • talk 21:30, 18 November 2020 (UTC)
- Closing note: This candidate has been promoted, but there may be a delay in bot processing of the close. Please see WP:FAC/ar, and leave the {{featured article candidates}} template in place on the talk page until the bot goes through. Ian Rose (talk) 12:51, 27 November 2020 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.