Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Muhammad II of Granada/archive1

The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Laser brain via FACBot (talk) 12 August 2019 [1].

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Muhammad II of Granada

Nominator(s): HaEr48 (talk) 03:57, 13 July 2019 (UTC)

This article is about Muhammad II, the second monarch of Nasrid Granada (the last Muslim state in Spain). He had a rather long life and managed to ensure the survival of his small kingdom by defending and often manouvring against its larger neighbors. After passing GA I took the reviewer's follow up feedback and after some research added more information to the biography. I hope it's ready for an FA review now. HaEr48 (talk) 03:57, 13 July 2019 (UTC)

Comment from Tim riley

A few points on the prose: the text is mainly in British English ("realise", "manoeuvring", "recognised", "neighbours") but the American spellings "center" and "centered" keep cropping up. And though "mountaneous" is a splendid word, it isn't in the OED: "mountainous" would be better. If the article is indeed meant to be in BrE, "This likely offended Muhammad" would be better as " This probably offended Muhammad".

There are a few duplicate links that would be better eradicated: "Muhammed III", "Nuño González de Lara", "Córdoba". That's all from me on the prose. The content looks excellent, and I expect to be supporting, but I'd prefer to wait until others more expert than I have had their say. – Tim riley talk 06:49, 13 July 2019 (UTC)

Thanks for your review. I fixed all the non-British words and duplinks. HaEr48 (talk) 07:11, 13 July 2019 (UTC)

No pressure Tim, but would you like to revisit now? Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 13:16, 3 August 2019 (UTC)

Thank you for the nudge, Ian. I've studied the comments below and reread the article, and am entirely happy to support now. Tim riley talk 16:18, 3 August 2019 (UTC)

Image review

• Suggest scaling up all maps and adding a legend to each caption
  • Done. HaEr48 (talk) 23:33, 13 July 2019 (UTC)

• Suggest adding alt text
  • Done. HaEr48 (talk) 23:33, 13 July 2019 (UTC)

• File:Estrecho_1276-1306.png: what is the source of the data presented in this map? Nikkimaria (talk) 18:49, 13 July 2019 (UTC)
  • Done (in Commons) HaEr48 (talk) 23:33, 13 July 2019 (UTC)

FunkMonk

• Will have a look soon. FunkMonk (talk) 17:17, 14 July 2019 (UTC)
• " which originated from Arjona" But was he born there himself? Also, state whether it was a town or what it was.
  • Updated to the "town of Arjona". I didn't find any source explicitly saying he was born there so I didn't add it to the article. But it seems likely given his father's biography. HaEr48 (talk) 13:57, 15 July 2019 (UTC)
• Link Granada and vizier. Can maravedís be linked?
  • Done. HaEr48 (talk) 13:57, 15 July 2019 (UTC)
• "He became the sole heir after the death of Yusuf without descendant" Reads a bit awkwardly, how about "Yusuf, who did not leave a descendant," or similar?
  • Done. HaEr48 (talk) 13:57, 15 July 2019 (UTC)
• "and the Marinid state" State it was Muslim.
  • Done. HaEr48 (talk) 13:57, 15 July 2019 (UTC)
• It is a bit confusing that you sometimes only say Muhammad, since there are two Muhammads to keep track of.
  • Identified "Muhammad I" or "II" in the initial sections when Muhammad I was still alive. HaEr48 (talk) 14:00, 15 July 2019 (UTC)
• "Muhammad II built a line fortifications" Line of?

Seems to have been resolved. FunkMonk (talk) 02:39, 18 July 2019 (UTC)

• Any reason why Nuño González de Lara is spelled out at every mention?
  • Removed "de Lara" except in the first one. HaEr48 (talk) 13:57, 15 July 2019 (UTC)
• "who were led by nobleman Nuño González de Lara" e has already been presented by this point, so why "the nobleman"?
  • My guess is that the initial intro was added after I wrote this section. Removed "the nobleman" now. HaEr48 (talk) 13:57, 15 July 2019 (UTC)
• "Before Abu Yusuf left, Muhammad's court poet wrote a poem expressing fear of Castile's power and appealing for the Marinids' continued help." Sounds interesting, could it perhaps be quoted here for flavour ?
  • FYI, I'm still working on this. HaEr48 (talk) 18:04, 16 July 2019 (UTC)
    • @FunkMonk: Done. Note, the English source didn't quote complete verses (sometimes only phrases), so I had to translate some of the them myself. Please review the style, etc. of the translation. HaEr48 (talk) 13:18, 17 July 2019 (UTC)

Makes this come much more alive than just pure description, and also underlines the point about the importance of poetry during his reign. Shouldn't this sentence begin with a capital letter, though? "that the mosques in this land". FunkMonk (talk) 21:34, 17 July 2019 (UTC)

Done. Thanks, other feedback about the poem is welcome too. HaEr48 (talk) 14:17, 18 July 2019 (UTC)

Thank you for your review. HaEr48 (talk) 13:18, 17 July 2019 (UTC)

• "With Málaga in its hands, Muhammad then helped" His hands?
  • Done. HaEr48 (talk) 13:37, 18 July 2019 (UTC)
• "who was checked by the North African Volunteers of the Faith" Any background on these? Had they been brought by the Marinids? I see they are explained under Governance and legacy, but wouldn't it be best at first mention?
  • Added background. HaEr48 (talk) 14:17, 18 July 2019 (UTC)
• "by Infantes Sancho" Infante?
  • Infante is actually a Spanish royal title, usually for a king's son. Sources about Spanish history in this period (e.g. O'Callaghan) often uses "Infante X" to refer to such a person, even in subsequent mentions, so I'm just imitating that because it feels useful to hint that these people are very high-ranking. The part you highlighted reads "Infantes Sancho, Peter and John" because there are three infantes. I added "(Prince)" at the first mention of the word - would that help? Another alternative is to not use the title, but it means losing the hint that these people are high-ranked (there are more infantes mentioned in this article). Do you have suggestions? HaEr48 (talk) 14:12, 18 July 2019 (UTC)

Ok, I think it would help if you simply said "the infantes", which might convey better that it refers to all of them. FunkMonk (talk) 16:14, 18 July 2019 (UTC)

@FunkMonk: Thanks, done. HaEr48 (talk) 20:23, 18 July 2019 (UTC)

• "A rift broke out between the king and his son" It is not very clear here that Sancho was the king's son, could maybe be stated clearly when he is introduced.
  • Done. HaEr48 (talk) 13:37, 18 July 2019 (UTC)
• "for the Abu Yusuf's help" Why the?
  • Done. HaEr48 (talk) 13:37, 18 July 2019 (UTC)
• "to the Nasrid clan" Maybe it should be mentioned it was Arab? Some of the other groups mentioned appear to be Berber.
  • Described the Nasrid clan's supposed origin in "Early life". HaEr48 (talk) 14:12, 18 July 2019 (UTC)
• "and align their war goals" Aligned?
  • Done. HaEr48 (talk) 13:37, 18 July 2019 (UTC)
• "that Granada were to regain Tarifa" Was to?
  • Done. HaEr48 (talk) 13:37, 18 July 2019 (UTC)
• "Muhammad died on 8 April 1302 (8 Shaban 701 AH)" Any idea of from what? And you could maybe add II to his name here and elsewhere.
  • The possible poisoning by his son is discussed in the following sentence. Apart from this I didn't find any additional info about the cause of death. HaEr48 (talk) 14:12, 18 July 2019 (UTC)
• "Late that year, Granadan forces defeated Infante Henry near Arjona and nearly captured him." Why? Last thing mentioned was they were allies?
  • The previous part of the paragraph talked about Henry leading Castile as regent, and the previous section was talking about Granada switching sides and being against Castile. The "peace overtures" were just part of the war, since it didn't work, they were still at war. Which part mentioned they were allies?
• "They were often located in mountainous or other areas that are difficult to reach" Why not keep the entire sentence in past tense?
  • Done. HaEr48 (talk) 13:37, 18 July 2019 (UTC)
• "from its Romance-speaking" Link?
  • Done. HaEr48 (talk) 13:37, 18 July 2019 (UTC)
• "in Al-Andalus on the Iberian Peninsula" This part of the intro could maybe be repeated at the beginning of the Early life section?
  • Done. HaEr48 (talk) 13:37, 18 July 2019 (UTC)
• @FunkMonk: Thanks for your review. I've replied to your latest round of comments. HaEr48 (talk) 14:19, 18 July 2019 (UTC)
• Support - everything looks good to me now. FunkMonk (talk) 20:28, 18 July 2019 (UTC)

Source review - Pass

All of the sources used appear to be reliable. I am unable to find any other sources which would materially add to the content of the article. I found no unattributed close paraphrasing. I consider the sources to be current. A reasonable mix of perspectives are represented. Everything that I would expect to be cited, is. I have carried out a limited spot check of a few citations, and in those cases the sources referred to seem to support the text cited.

• Hyphens are inconsistently used in ISBNs. (Catlos is the odd one out.)
  • @Gog the Mild: Sorry I'm not very knowledgeable about this. What is the expected formatting? HaEr48 (talk) 18:03, 16 July 2019 (UTC)

There are several acceptable ways of hyphenating ISBNs, but only one should be used within any single article. I have tweaked Catlos.

• Albarrán it should be formatted as 'cite encyclopedia', not "cite book".
  • Done. HaEr48 (talk) 18:03, 16 July 2019 (UTC)
• Cite 21 should read 'p.', not "pp.".
  • Done. HaEr48 (talk) 18:03, 16 July 2019 (UTC)
• Cites 26 and 27: page ranges should be indicated by en dashes, not em dashes.
  • Done. HaEr48 (talk) 18:03, 16 July 2019 (UTC)
• Is there no publisher location for Albarrán?
  • Added (Oxford and New York). HaEr48 (talk) 18:03, 16 July 2019 (UTC)

Gog the Mild (talk) 17:27, 16 July 2019 (UTC)

Thank you for your review. HaEr48 (talk) 18:03, 16 July 2019 (UTC)

Support Comments by Sturmvogel_66

• The Volunteers were a component of Granada's military made up of warriors from North Africa, largely political exiles who migrated with their families and tribes.[46] They were so integrated with Granada that they still defended Granada against Castile despite Granada also being at war with the Marinid state where they came from. Why should this be notable? They were exiles from Morocco and almost certainly didn't have any loyalty to the government that exiled them.
  • "I removed "They were so integrated with Granada that ..." to make it less dramatic. The source I use (Harvey p. 159) seem to think this is noteworthy. Maybe you're right, but arguably there is a difference between joining a holy war abroad and being in a foreign army that is at war with your home country, exiled or not. Thank you for your review! HaEr48 (talk) 02:53, 28 July 2019 (UTC)
• Otherwise, nicely done. I'll look it over again in a few days to see if there's anything that I missed on the first go around.--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 21:52, 27 July 2019 (UTC)
• Many of them were members of tribes or families which became political exiles from the Marinid state. Shouldn't this be "had been exiled"?
  • Done. Thank you Sturmvogel 66 for your review! HaEr48 (talk) 12:31, 2 August 2019 (UTC)
• Otherwise not seeing anything else in need of correction.--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 19:25, 1 August 2019 (UTC)

Support by Constantine

I reviewed this at GAN, and am very happy with the changes and additions since. I also added a few minor things on Muhammad's contributions to the institutions of the Nasrid state and did a few minor copyedits. after going it over, I really can't think of anything to complain about. There is potentially some scope for expansion (I am pretty sure that some more details about his legislative and administrative activities could be found in very specialist sources), but otherwise the article is comprehensive, and none of the—otherwise excellent—sources I have at my disposal on al-Andalus come close to it in terms of completeness. So definitely support, and well done to HaEr48. Constantine ✍ 16:59, 20 July 2019 (UTC)

• Closing note: This candidate has been promoted, but there may be a delay in bot processing of the close. Please see WP:FAC/ar, and leave the {{featured article candidates}} template in place on the talk page until the bot goes through. --Laser brain (talk) 17:00, 12 August 2019 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.