Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Mark Murphy (American football executive)/archive1

The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was archived by Gog the Mild via FACBot (talk) 30 November 2023 [1].

Mark Murphy (American football executive)

Nominator(s): « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 16:48, 3 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Mark Murphy is the current president of the Green Bay Packers, an American football team in the National Football League (NFL). Unlike most NFL teams, the Packers are owned by a publicly-held, non-profit corporation (Green Bay Packers, Inc.) that is led by an elected board of directors. Murphy was elected to the presidency of the organization in 2007, assuming the roles in 2008. Prior to this role, he played for the Washington Redskins for 8 seasons, received his undergrad, masters and JD degrees, served as an athletic director for two colleges and worked for the NFL Players Association.

This will be my third FAC, after Bob Mann and Packers sweep. Thank you for taking the time to review the article. Look forward to resolving any concerns promptly. Cheers, « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 16:48, 3 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

CommentsSupport from Chris

The use of non-independent sources (Commanders.com, Packers.com, ColgateAthletics.com, and NFL.com) and questionable ones (BuffaloSportsHallFame.com) makes me think this article isn't ready for prime time --Guerillero ^{Parlez Moi} 21:22, 12 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Guerillero, thank you for your input and happy to work with you if there are specific statements that would be better backed up by a different source or removed altogether. That said, context matters; none of the statements supported by the sources you identified are contentious or questionable, nor are any of the sources unduly praiseworthy/harsh. Within the realm of reporting on sports figures, many details just aren't reported on by scholarly sources. That said, I'll take a look and see if some of the existing sources can replace some of the ones you noted. « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 15:29, 13 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Guerillero, just as a note of some progress: I replaced or removed all instances of Commanders.com and BuffaloSportsHallFame.com. I also replaced all instances of NFL.com except for one and Packers.com except for two. Still working on ColgateAthletics.com. I'm guessing you have concerns about the American.edu source as well? I'll see what I can do with those. « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 18:42, 13 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Guerillero, more progress: I have removed or replaced American.edu and ColgateAthletics.com. Regarding this NFL.com source, are you opposed to its inclusion in this article. It covers two statements regarding the changes the NFL made due to Covid-19, both of which are not controversial. It is also authored by Judy Battista, a former New York Times journalist with a good reputation. Still looking on the Packers.com sources. « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 18:41, 14 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Guerillero, I removed or replaced the NFL.com source and the Packers.com bio of Murphy. That leaves the press release by the Packers. Are you opposed to this source, considering context and the statements that it supports (which are generally not controversial or overly praiseworthy/critical). « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 19:26, 15 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Comments

"a position he would hold until 2007" => "a position he held until 2007"
"The Packers won Super Bowl XLV in 2011, made the playoffs eight straight seasons from 2009 to 2016 and Rodgers won four MVP awards" => "The Packers won Super Bowl XLV in 2011 and made the playoffs eight straight seasons from 2009 to 2016, and Rodgers won four MVP awards"
"to receive a "white letter, as the outstanding performer in his sport, for all three" sports" - that looks weird with the last word outside the quote marks. If the word wasn't in the original quote, I'd be tempted to present it as "to receive a "white letter, as the outstanding performer in his sport, for all three [sports]"."
"Halfway through his freshmen year" - freshmAn, surely? I'd also link this as it is not a commonly understood word outside the United States
"During his junior year" - link this term too
"as the Redskins starting safety" => "as the Redskins' starting safety"
"17-straight points" - no reason for that hyphen
"The 1983 NFL season was Murphy's finest of his career though," => "The 1983 NFL season was Murphy's finest of his career, though,"
"The Redskins would go on to play in" => "The Redskins went on to play in"
"During his time with the Redskins, Murphy was the Redskins' representative" => "During his time with the Redskins, Murphy was the team's representative" (less repetitive)
"his prominent role in the strike shortened led to" - this doesn't seem to make sense, are there words missing?
"he worked on player counseling program," => either "he worked on a player counseling program," or "he worked on player counseling programs,"
"Murphy returned to his alma mater in 1992 " - I would re-name the university as it's been a long time since it was mentioned before
"with two bowl games" - what is a "bowl game"?
"the Packers announced Murphy as the organization's ele president" - what's an "ele president"?
"The lock out ended in July 2011" - isn't lockout one word?
Fort McCoy image caption is not a complete sentence so shouldn't have a full stop
"This mixed use development would provide new commercial space" - in the lead "mixed use" had a hyphen....?
"The 2017 season saw the Packers consecutive playoff appearance streak end" => "The 2017 season saw the Packers' consecutive playoff appearance streak end"
"to be the Packers 15th head coach" => "to be the Packers' 15th head coach"
"one of his worst statistical seasons as the Packers starting quarterback" => "one of his worst statistical seasons as the Packers' starting quarterback"
"in this case Love, as the Packers new starting quarterback" => "in this case Love, as the Packers' new starting quarterback"
"The Packers record since he became president" => "The Packers' record since he became president"
"Murphy noted in his remaining years as president, he would" => "Murphy noted that in his remaining years as president he would"
That's what I got -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 21:00, 13 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
- ChrisTheDude, thank you for the review. I believe I addressed all your comments here. « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 21:34, 13 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  - You changed "the organization's ele president" to "the organization's elenth president". As "elenth" isn't a word, I presume that's meant to say "eleventh".......? -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 08:24, 14 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    - ChrisTheDude, you are correct, and it has been fixed. Thank you for your c/e as well. « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 14:42, 14 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 14:43, 14 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
- Cheers :) « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 18:41, 14 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Comments

1. Article — "Murphy worked for a year for the Street Law Clinic after graduating with Juris Doctor in 1988, where he received an award for developing a program educating inmates on the law. He then was hired as a trial attorney for the United States Department of Justice from 1989 to 1992."

Where does the source mention that he worked at the Street Law Clinic "for a year"?

Likewise, I don't see the source mentioning that he worked at the Street Law Clinic (SLC) "after" graduating. All it says is that he received that award we mention "during" his time at SLC.

Are we treating "a law degree" (from source) as "Juris Doctor"? (from article). If we have a source that makes it a bit more explicit, it would be better. Else, I'd maybe IAR on this particular one.

2. Article — "... including basketball, volleyball, softball, and hockey."

I can't see the source mentioning "hockey". What is mentions in "ice hockey". Not an expert on sports (have worked on just 2 sporting articles), so I am unaware if treating "ice hockey" as "hockey" is a standard practice or not.

3. Pretty similar, I feel:

Article: On the football side ... with two bowl games under Murphy

Source: On the football field ... in two bowl games during Murphy's tenure

4. Article — "Murphy married his wife Laurie after they met at Colgate University and they have four children together."

The source does not specify the year of their marriage. Neither does the source specify whether that "event" took place before or after their meeting at the Colgate University. All it says is that his wife "is a Colgate graduate".

5. Article — "Murphy also donated $250,000 to 'causes in Wisconsin that support social justice and racial equality' following"

The source just says that he "pledged" to donate. From my reading of the cited source, we are unaware whether he actually donated that amount or now. However, the way we present that in the article, it very clearly says that he has donated. There is a difference in pledging and donating.

Apologies for doing this, but unfortunately (and sadly), I have to oppose this nomination. I have spot checked a total of seven citations, of which, five are problematic. This is a biography of a living person, we need to be extra careful about this, and that can be reflected in my above comments; I have been a bit more nitpicky than I usually am (due to this being a blp), but many of the above mentioned issues should really not have existed. Most of the issues I mention are not difficult to find, any spot-checker with access to the sources can find them; it took me no more than 40 minutes to find and compile these issues. Based on the review and problematic spot checks (5 of 7), I unfortunately do not have confidence in rest 85 citations which I did not check, and therefore did not find any need to check more citations. I am willing to revisit my oppose on the grounds that (1) All the 92 citations in the article be checked by the nominator for source-to-text integrity (2) Some other independent reviewer conducts and passes a spot-check. Since it is really hard to do this top-to-bottom check within the time and boundations of the FA process, I also suggest withdrawal. However, if you are willing to do the same during the FA process, I am willing to strike the "suggesting withdrawal" part. Feel free to ping me for any help, of if you ever need me to do more spot-checks outside of this process. Thanks for all your work on this article and other articles! – Kavyansh.Singh (talk) 19:15, 16 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Kavyansh.Singh, comments #2, #3, #4, and #5 have been addressed. Hockey in the US generally means "ice hockey", but that is a good comment for clarifying. #3 is borderline close paraphrasing (there is no other way to say "two bowl games"). #4 I changed to note that it was just her alma mater (again, a minor word choice clarification, its implied they met at their alma mater, but again, needs to be clarified). #5 is again a minor word choice. Yes there is a big difference between pledging and actually giving, but this was likely more a slip of the tongue ("keyboard") then anything else. #1 is the only one I see that is a definite miss on a spot check, and that came about from the comment above about changing sources from Packers.com to other more independent sources. I just did not do a good enough job of rewording the sentence to better match the new source. Let me take a look at that one and your larger comment about spot checks and get back to you. « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 20:34, 16 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Kavyansh.Singh, I have addressed comment #1. The JD is mentioned in another source, which has been added, and I reworded the offending sense to match the source. Taking a look at the sources now. « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 19:59, 17 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Gonzo fan2007, how are you getting on with this? Gog the Mild (talk) 20:15, 29 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Gog the Mild, please withdraw this. My elderly mother fell and broke her hip on Friday. Not going to have a lot of editing time for a while. Thanks. « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 23:27, 29 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Good grief. Of course. My apologies. Gog the Mild (talk) 01:02, 30 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Closing note: This candidate has been withdrawn, but there may be a delay in bot processing of the close. Please see WP:FAC/ar, and leave the {{featured article candidates}} template in place on the talk page until the bot goes through. Gog the Mild (talk) 01:02, 30 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.