Jump to content

Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Kona Lanes/archive1

Add links
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was not promoted by Ian Rose 10:01, 9 February 2014 (UTC) [1].[reply]

Kona Lanes

[edit]

Kona Lanes (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Toolbox
Nominator(s): —ATinySliver/ATalkPage 06:06, 28 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

This article is about the late, great Kona Lanes, still the subject of considerable reminiscence almost 11 years after its demolition. I believe the article is ready to represent Wikipedia's best. —ATinySliver/ATalkPage 06:06, 28 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Comment—per the instructions, the Peer Review needs to be closed before the FAC continues.

  • Also, any items listed in the "See also" section that are already linked in the body of the article need to be removed per MOS:LAYOUT. The section is used to list additional items not already linked.
  • I would move the commons boxes up to the top of the "External links" section and merge them using {{commons category multi}}. By moving them up, you'll eliminate a large chunk of whitespace by letting them float to the right of the links.
  • I would also remove the navbox from the bottom of the article because this article is not linked from it.

Source review: no spotcheck is implied here.

  • The sources look good on a reliability standpoint at first review, except two.
  • FN 3 should really be redone using {{google maps}} instead of {{cite web}}.
  • FN4: normally I advise that if a newspaper title doesn't include its city of publication in the name that the location should be provided. Normally we would do this using |location= in the citation templates.
  • FN7, et al.: I would suggest converting that spaced hyphen in the headline to a colon to separate the head from the subhead.
  • FN9, et al.: the Los Angeles Times was linked in the first footnote so the link does not need to be repeated here. I would suggest that other repetitive links be removed per WP:OVERLINK.
  • FN 10, et al.: You've used Title Case for the article titles up to this point, but this one and others are in Sentence case. For the sake of consistency, I would use one or the other, but not both. This is a minor typographic change that like the hyphen-to-colon change above won't change the meaning, but it will polish this article's presentation.
    • That was intentional—I'm reproducing the titles as they appear originally. :) —ATinySliver/ATalkPage 08:05, 28 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
      • That's not a good practice in what is supposed to be "our best work". I have copies of the style guides for APA, MLA, and The Chicago Manual of Style on my bookshelf here, and they'll all tell you to conform to the expected capitalization scheme they prescribe. Our MOS is more flexible in that it doesn't exactly prescribe one over the other, but it still endorses making minor typographic changes to produce consistency. Nothing is gained or lost by replicating how the sources capitalized their headlines, but the inconsistency here looks sloppy. Imzadi 1979 → 08:18, 28 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • FN13: I would simplify the headline to match what the content of the webpage lists instead of the HTML title. In this case, I would use "Police On My Back" as the title, and optionally |page=1 and |department=Music.
  • FN20: Either that was published in the Daily Pilot or the Los Angeles Times, so one or the other only please.
  • FN24, et al.: the website names should be capitalized, even if they stylize their names in all lowercase.
  • FN26, et al.: If "Michael Ward Design" is the name of the organization that published that webpage, I would move that into |publisher= instead. Check through other footnotes to see if something is really the publisher instead of the name of a publication. (I'm thinking that in FN6, the "Professional Bowlers Association" should be the publisher and "PBA News and Articles" would be a website name, for example.)
    • Honestly, and I'll preface that this is a pushing personal preference a bit, but the ".com" stuff should be dropped from some of the names. The name of the website run by "Facebook, Inc." is "Facebook", not "Facebook.com". (Some websites do include the ".com" in their names, but Facebook and eBay [watch those caps] do not.) What is currently FN 26 should just be credited to |publisher=Michael Ward Design + Art and omit a |website=. There are no good, solid rules, but rather a gut-level instinct for discerning the distinction between when a website has a recognizable or distinct name separate from its publisher, and which is the better-known name to use. That does mean you won't always have an italicized entry in the citation, like FN3 on Interstate 196, which is an online database published by the Michigan Department of Transportation. Another example would be FN 48 on M-28 (Michigan highway), a news article from a TV station; the station is a publisher while one of their programs would be a publication. Imzadi 1979 → 09:34, 28 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

From my viewpoint, this is all minor stylistic stuff other than the reliability questions. Imzadi 1979 → 07:02, 28 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

    • Oppose This is extremely short, there's an early section, decline section, but what about peak years? Also, there are at least two facebook refs. I hardly consider facebook reliable. HalfGig talk 00:34, 2 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]
      • I've added the only other detail I can find that isn't outright WP:CRUFT. The facebook refs are from the sources' official pages. At this point, there is all but literally nothing else I can do. —ATinySliver/ATalkPage 02:35, 2 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]
        • The biggest problem is that it's not comprehensive. IMHO this wouldn't pass a Good Article candidacy. As for facebook (which IMHO is as bad a source as Angelfire), the first one about Costa Mesta only gives an address. It's mainly a bunch of posts about people talking about the Costa Mesa business. How does that support the claim in the article? As for facebook ref two, it says "We recently provided a minor contribution to a Wikipedia article about Kona Lanes. Amazing all that's now at our fingertips, eh?" then it quotes the wiki article. Is anyone calling that a reliable source? I think not. Sorry, but this article is not near ready for featured status. Personally I'd classify as Start class. Plus is ebay a reliable reference? HalfGig talk 02:58, 2 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • (←) By point: 1. Tavern+Bowl in Costa Mesa is not yet open ("Spring 2014");
2. It appears you didn't read through. Tod Swormstedt, the founder and operator of ASM, replied to my request for detail on the official facebook page (linked at the bottom of all pages at signmuseum.org and, therefore, reliable); and
3. The cited sentence reads "Knickknacks were still being sold on eBay more than ten years later", which links to proof of the statement. It could be just me, but I found it remarkable that items from a bowling center razed more than ten years prior were still being offered for sale, and the link is its only possible source. :D —ATinySliver/ATalkPage 05:23, 2 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Update: I found a better link for Tavern+Bowl, it'll be added presently. Meantime, I value your opinion and those of everyone else who is kind enough to assist in making this article and Wikipedia as a whole better, so I'll beat back the temptation to be offended by terming it "Start class." xDDD —ATinySliver/ATalkPage 05:45, 2 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Take a look at the other FAC I commented on yesterday: Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Rainbow trout/archive1, article Rainbow trout. Compare the level of detail and quality level of refs in that to yours. That should help show why I feel this Kona Lanes article is not yet ready for FAC. I did not mean to offend, I was just trying to explain why I hold the view that I do. HalfGig talk 12:48, 2 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Apples and oranges, if you'll forgive me. Rainbow trout still exist—fortunately, we humans haven't cast them into history just yet—and sources are myriad. Kona Lanes went the way of the dodo nearly 11 years ago, which leaves archives and reminiscences and an iconic roadside sign preserved in a wonderful museum 2,500 miles away, and literally nothing else. The article features 33 sources, 22 of which are from newsprint (and a 23rd a collection of news articles and "letters to the editor"). With the possible exception of my prose, which is necessarily journalistic, this article is as good as it may ever get—absent someone writing a book. xD
Perhaps a better comparison, if only slightly, is another article I'm preparing for FAC. Ike Altgens was a very short FA in 2007 and a mess of irrelevance and POV in 2013. Today, it's much more comprehensive and meticulously cited (though that's still in progress). —ATinySliver/ATalkPage 23:24, 2 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]
You would think... xD —ATinySliver/ATalkPage 08:39, 4 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Update: "Peak Years" is fleshed out a bit, but I have to admit that it borders on the peripheral. WP:CRUFT precludes pretty much anything else. —ATinySliver/ATalkPage 09:56, 5 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Final update: that's it; search is done, nothing else specific to Kona still exists that passes WP:N and WP:CRUFT, and I've added everything I can tie in per WP:REL. If that's not good enough, I'll request withdrawal. Meantime, thanks to everyone for your help and input. :) —ATinySliver/ATalkPage 08:35, 6 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Closing comment -- I scanned this article myself early on, purely out of interest in the subject, and did feel that the middle years were lacking detail; hopefully reliable sources will turn up and this can return at a later date but in the meantime I'm archiving it per the nominator's withdrawal request. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 06:54, 9 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Featured_article_candidates/Kona_Lanes/archive1&oldid=1138465327"