Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Klaas-Jan Huntelaar/archive1

The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was not promoted 16:28, 18 November 2007.

Klaas-Jan Huntelaar

I recently made this article in to a Good article, and it has gone through peer-review. I think it's ready for FAC and I'll do my best to address any issues with the article which will undoubtedly be raised. JACO PLANE • 2007-11-9 22:24

Object -[mainly 1a, also 1b, 1c] I really like the article, my problems with it seem fixable.

only 16 out of 78 sources are in english, this doesn't disqualify it in any way but was this translated from the dutch wikipedia?

The article was not translated from the Dutch Wikipedia, I wrote it solely for the English WP. The problem I had is that there are simply no English sources for a lot of the facts that need sources in this article. JACO PLANE • 2007-11-10 10:18

Wow! It makes it a bit harder for me to check some things, but this was merely an observational comment, not an objection. It's interesting that this might get FA status in the English-language wikipedia before it does in the Dutch-language wikipedia.

Comment: If you need to get some facts from a Dutch source verified, I'm sure I can get another Dutch admin to help out with confirming the sources. JACO PLANE • 2007-11-15 12:35

"(another one was disallowed by a controversial off-side call by the referee, denying him the hat-trick)," why is this inside parenthesis? if it isn't notable it shouldn't be in the article, if it is notable it shouldn't be in parenthesis, and who says its controversial?

Done Removed that sentence. JACO PLANE • 2007-11-10 10:18

"In the final Huntelaar scored a brace" I wasn't able to find this usage in wiktionary for brace.

Done I've re-added a wikilink to Brace (grouping). JACO PLANE • 2007-11-10 10:18

"He is seen as a rising star in Dutch football, being named Dutch Football Talent of the Year and [...]" grammar, "weasel terms", unreferenced - are all Dutch Football Talent of the Year seen as rising stars? who sees him as a rising star? My solution would be "He won the title of Dutch Footbal Talent of the [...] and forget about "rising star"

This was raised in the GA nomination too, everything in the intro is referenced in the article. The "rising star" bit is referenced in the National football team section using this reference: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/internationals/4795339.stm. JACO PLANE • 2007-11-10 10:18

That individual part was not referenced and even now I doubt it's NPOV. The report calls him a Rising Star, the article says he is seen by as a rising star. So far, we have that ~~BBC sees~~ that a commentor for the BBC sees that he is a rising star. "Various media outlets have noted him as a rising star in netherlands football, and he has won..." would work better.--Keerllston 14:17, 10 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Done Used your suggestion. JACO PLANE • 2007-11-15 09:49

"He led the Dutch to victory" this seems POV to me. My solution would be to delete, his goal making is notable, his leadership is not.

Rephrased the sentence. "While Holland went on to score just three goals in four games goals at the World Cup in Germany, the youth side did a lot better in the U21 championship. Huntelaar was the top-scorer of the Under 21 tournament with four goals, including a powerful strike in the semi-final against France and a brace in the final against Ukraine, as the young Dutch were victorious in the tournament." JACO PLANE • 2007-11-10 10:18

I was wondering why you had changed it and it was still there - you changed the line inside "Netherlands national team" the same line is also in the lead.--Keerllston 14:17, 10 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Done Rephrased the intro to say "He was a part of the Dutch side that won the 2006 UEFA European Under-21 Football Championship, where he became the tournament's leading goal-scorer. He is the all-time highest goal-scorer for the Netherlands U21 squad with 18 goals in 22 matches."

--Keerllston 03:10, 10 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I like it but I keep finding these...

"as a centre forward, or an "out-and-out" striker, rather than as a supporting striker." -centre forward... shouldn't need to repeat "out and out striker" which is (I believe) informal ... yet more could be said about what he actually does in the field.- games are more than just scoring and moving from team to team.

"as a youth talent at an early age" can you put his actual age? otherwise delete word early, youth talents don't recruit old people.

Done Removed "at an early age". JACO PLANE • 2007-11-15 09:49

"He has a good technical ability and can score goals with either foot" referenced to goal.com -but what is "good" technical ability? that he can score with either foot perhaps should be referenced to matches/match reports. is goal.com a reliable source? it doesn't even say that he has good technical ability - a comment by a woman from chile apparently says that.

Not done I've asked what people on WikiProject Football feel about using Goal.com as a source. JACO PLANE • 2007-11-15 10:01

The consensus on WP:FOOTY seems to be that Goal.com is an acceptable source. The Goal.com article also mentions that he is a "rising talent", BTW. I agree with you that the "good technical ability" is rather ambiguous and I'll have to rephrase that. I'll try to come up with something better today. JACO PLANE • 2007-11-15 12:32

"Huntelaar was the top-scorer of the Under 21 tournament with four goals, including a powerful strike in the semi-final against France and a brace in the final against Ukraine, as the young Dutch were victorious in the tournament." bad grammar/run-on.

Done Rewrote it: "While Holland went on to score just three goals in four games goals at the World Cup in Germany, the youth side did a lot better in the U21 championship. Huntelaar was the top-scorer of the Under 21 tournament with four goals as the young Dutch were victorious in the tournament. He scored a powerful strike in the semi-final against France and a brace in the final against Ukraine."JACO PLANE • 2007-11-15 09:49

All the problems I've seen are fixable and pretty small, but it seems there's a lot of them. This article still needs work.--Keerllston 14:17, 10 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Object if only on a number of minor points and a couple of other easily amended comments. Though I have to point out I've help to copyedit some of the sections at GA.

Profile; Huntelaar and his girlfriend became a couple. What do you mean? Engaged, married?

No, just what it says, they announced to the media that they are a couple, not engaged, and definitely not married. JACO PLANE • 2007-11-18 00:04

No worries. It seems a clumsy way of explaining this but it's referenced and I'm not sure how best to change the wording unless you explain he and his girlfriend were previously friends. Peanut4 (talk) 00:27, 18 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

This might be something for another page but what are A1 and B1 teams?

A1 is the highest youth level, B1 is a lower youth level. I don't feel this article to explain that, though. JACO PLANE • 2007-11-18 00:04

The reason I asked is because I don't understand what they mean, not knowing the Dutch league in-depth. Are there are wikilinks (even if just to subsections) that explain A1 and B1? If not, then you're right, this isn't the article to explain the levels. Peanut4 (talk) 00:17, 18 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

PSV; In his second season at PSV (2001–02), I'd try rewrite this so 2001-02 isn't in brackets.

Done Removed the years, those are made clear in the infobox. JACO PLANE • 2007-11-18 00:04

PSV; I'd wikilink substitute when mentioned in his debut. It's obvious what it means to me, but a page exists so I'd use it.

Done Added a wikilink to Substitute (football). JACO PLANE • 2007-11-18 00:04

PSV; the links in the final section, go 5 then 2. Should they not be re-ordered?

I'm not sure what you're talking about here, could you clarify? JACO PLANE • 2007-11-18 00:04

'This turned out to be his only Eredivisie appearance for the club.[5][2]' I just wondered if the two references at the end of this sentence should be switched round so it says 2 then 5. Rather than 5 then 2. Peanut4 (talk) 00:17, 18 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

De Graafschap; Huntelaar was sent on loan to his old club De Graafschap to gain experience. Can you find a reference for this that it is to gain experience and not to help him find a new club?

Done Although I'm 99% sure that I read in a source that he was sent back to gain experience, I can't seem to locate that right now. So I've removed the "to gain experience" bit. JACO PLANE • 2007-11-18 00:04

Heerenveen career seems to be predominantly a list of goals. Is there anything else you can add to expand this section? I much prefer the Ajax section because it puts his goal more into the overall context of the club.

There are no sources available that I have been able to locate (in Dutch or English) to add much to this section. I guess you could fail the article for this, but it's simply because there are no sources available. Anything further I could add here would be original research. JACO PLANE • 2007-11-18 00:04

Netherlands career. I'm a bit dubious about this sentence; Huntelaar's status as a rising star was confirmed when Marco van Basten decided to select the striker as his starting striker in the Dutch National squad's friendly against the Republic of Ireland on 16 August 2006. I'm sure this needs a reference regarding the rising star comment. It could be seen as PoV. Plenty of players get international caps without necessarily being rising stars.

Done Previous reviewer raised the "rising star" issue, please see my answers above. JACO PLANE • 2007-11-18 00:04

Fair enough. But one of the two uses of rising star needs a reference to that BBC story. Otherwise it's POV. Peanut4 (talk) 00:22, 18 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Are there any links available to separate articles on the Dutch seasons in the career section?

I don't understand what kind of links you are looking for. Sources that summarize full seasons? JACO PLANE • 2007-11-18 00:04

See Thierry Henry. All the years in the left hand column have a wikilink to that particularly year in English / Spanish seasons, etc. Are there appropriate seasons to wikilink the Dutch seasons? Peanut4 (talk) 00:17, 18 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Otherwise this article is making very good progress since I first came across it a few weeks ago. Peanut4 22:28, 15 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.