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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Ian Rose via FACBot (talk) 22 May 2019 [1].

Keldholme Priory election dispute

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Nominator(s): ——SerialNumber54129 09:58, 15 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Priory dispute, Yorkshire. 1308. Archbishop throws weight around and nuns cart his backside down the road a piece (metaphorically speaking). It's not quite Castle Anthrax, but if you're after administrative angst and argumentative archbishops, all combined with a hefty (healthy?!) dose of immorality, get in there. Cheers! ——SerialNumber54129 09:58, 15 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Image review

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So you should be good to go on images then. Kees08 (Talk) 04:16, 16 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks very much Kees08, added a couple, but it's not easy, so I'll probably add some more when on desktop. Cheers! ——SerialNumber54129 07:40, 16 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Update: Added a couple more. Cheers, ——SerialNumber54129 12:29, 18 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Alrighty, should be good to go on images. Kees08 (Talk) 05:52, 20 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

SC

[edit]
Lead
  • Link prioresses?
    • Linked.
  • I think I'm being dense here, but I'm struggling with "but she also seems not to have recovered popularity among her sorority".
    • Yes, it is a bit. How about but she also seems to have become unpopular with the nuns, which is close to a similar sentence in the opening para, but perhaps far enough from it?

Background

  • "and its reputation was such" The connection between the resignations and the local sheriff getting his jollies is a little jarring unless there was something a little more concrete to tie the two together (like (sex) scandals causing the resignations)
    • No connection, unfortunately, so carved it out to indicate two different forms of ill-repute: "The priory's reputation was further damaged by suspicions that the Sheriff..."
Pykering
  • "Much of what we know of" -> "Much of what is known of"
    • Thanks, half-inched.
  • "In the words of Eileen Power, "pandemonium reigned" -> "In the words of the medievalist/historian/medieval historian/etc Eileen Power, "pandemonium reigned"
    • Gone with the under-used "medievalist".
  • "Eileen Power described Joan" – you've already full named her above
    • Power'd.
Acrimony
  • "Says Burton, "for the second time she succeeded" de Stapleton": I'm not a fan of "says Burton", and we don't need this to be a quote – it is easily enough rephrased
    • Perhaps "For the second time in Keldhome's recent history de Ebor' succeeded de Stapleton as prioress, in what amounted, says Burton, to a posthumous..."?
Aftermath
  • I know you link to dissolution of the monasteries, but would mentioning the phrase "dissolution of the monasteries" be better?
    • Fair enough, yes; something like "...until the house was closed in 1536 by the dissolution of the monasteries."?
  • "Eileen Power has suggested" – already linked and full named further up
    • Ditto'd.

That's it. Leaning to support at the moment, but would like these to be considered first. Cheers - SchroCat (talk) 12:20, 30 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Cheers SC, let me know whether these adjustments address your excellent points. Good health and don't lean too far  :) ——SerialNumber54129 17:48, 30 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks again! I must've typed slower than I thought up there  :) ——SerialNumber54129 17:51, 30 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Support Comments from Tim riley

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  • Lead
    • In the second sentence you say, but don't mean, that the archbishop, not the priory, was in a state of turmoil.
      • As was my prose: how about recasting it in its entirety ("After a series of resignations by its prioresses, the priory was in a general state of turmoil, and the Archbishop of York, William Greenfield, appointed one of the nuns to lead the house")?
    • "to lead the house that year" – a touch ambiguous. I take it to mean the appointment was made in that year rather than that it was intended to last for that year only.
      • Yes, part of the above now.
    • "It is likely, however" – the second "however" in the one para, which is at least one too many, in my view.
      • Removed all "however"s except two.
    • "eventually, Greenfield" – unexpected comma
      • Removed.
  • Background
    • Some doubt about the italicisation here for "Victoria County History (VCH)". The linked WP article doesn't italicise the title – not quite sure why not – but if you are going to do so here oughtn't you to italicise the abbreviation too? (Question asked without having the faintest idea of the answer.)
      • Good point(s)! So I've italicised both the initialism here and WP:BOLDly inserted {{ITALICTITLE}} to the main article...see how long that lasts...
The answer would be about four hours  :) ——SerialNumber54129 11:25, 25 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Pykering appointed
    • "On account of the fact that" – rather a long-winded way of saying "because", perhaps?
      • Absolutely.
    • "The Archdeacon placed de Pykering in corporal possession of the priory, and to rebuke those nuns who had opposed her predecessor." – I'm struggling with this. There seem words missing at the end: to rebuke them he did what?
      • Well, the sentence was crap, to be sure: but it was meant to be "and rebuked"?
  • Acrimony in the convent
    • "a posthumous victory of Greenfield" – over rather than of surely?
      • Of course.
  • Notes
    • 1. "tending to be small, poor and yet close to the border" – why "yet", I wonder? Would you expect large, rich priories close to the border? And did Power really write such an ungrammatical sentence as "Moreover the conditions of life [plural] set its [singular] stamp etc?
    • 3. "she must have died rather than have resigned—as Keldholme's prioress Emma de Stapleton had done" – I think you want the dash slightly earlier to avoid ambiguity. At present the sentence could equally say E de S died or resigned. If you move the dash to between "died" and "rather", it will remove the ambiguity.
      • I split the thing in two, in fact; I think it's tighter now?
  • Bibliography

That's all from me. Tim riley talk 18:50, 24 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Happy to support now. One point from re-reading: blue-link addicts may feel Yorkshire wants linking in the first line, though I can't conceive that anyone reading this article will need to click to find out what Yorkshire is. (As a Lancastrian I could tell them but will refrain.) I know some editors who would slap a [[sic]] on Power's poor English, but personally I'd leave it alone: a sic does rather break the flow of the prose and is, I think, best kept for cases where there is genuine scope for misunderstanding. The article seems comprehensive, and is well and widely referenced. It meets the FA criteria, in my view. – Tim riley talk 09:02, 25 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks very much, Tim riley and for the advice—it's a useful starting point for discussion in case the same thing is raised by other reviewers.
Also, glancing back over Power's page above, I wonder if I could shoehorn in a mention of the nuns' "hot blood"  ;) ——SerialNumber54129 09:56, 25 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by Wehwalt

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An interesting article. Just a few things.

  • by its prioresses, the priory " can these similar words be separated more?
    • How about "establishment"?
  • "Keldholme itself was placed under interdict and threatened with excommunication. " can places be excommunicated?
    • "and the nuns threatened with".
  • "St. Mary" should this be "St Mary"?
    • Indeed!
  • "Few of the Prioress's names have been recorded, " shouldn't Prioress's be plural?
    • Done.
  • "by two local parish rectors," the C of E is, perhaps understandably, not an area of expertise for me, but is there some level of redundancy in this description?
    • Fair enough; "two local rectors" OK?
  • "Emma de Stapleton" redlinked multiple times and not necessarily on first usage. Also you are not consistent in whether to refer to her as "Stapleton" or "de Stapleton".
    • Right. Redlinked in the lead and first subsequent mention, and all other mentions are now consistently prefixed de.
  • Is the capitalisation of "Prioress" consistent with MOS?
    • It is now!  ;)
  • "received a heavy[16] penitence from Greenfield." should "penitence" be "penance"?
    • I think it should be, and have done so; oddly, though, our article on penitance redirects to penance.
I accidentally/mistakenly used <code></code> instead of <nowiki></nowiki> when linking {{ITALICTITLE}} above  :)
Thanks very much for all those useful suggestions, Wehwalt, hopefully, they've been addressed as painlessly as possible! ——SerialNumber54129 11:21, 25 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support Well done.--Wehwalt (talk) 11:26, 25 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Sources review

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  • No spotchecks carried out
  • Format
  • Ref 32 p. range
  • Check page number (given as 155167) in Burton 2005
Well spotted! Many thanks for the review, Brianboulton. ——SerialNumber54129 14:38, 26 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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